Noticed yesterday at a local Walmart here in San Antonio that Walmart had R134a on sale for $9.27 for a "standard" 340 gram can.

Recently, the auto parts stores have went up to as much as $18 to $20 per can, and $300 or more for a 30 lb can.

Friend in Charlotte clued me in that the European Union is banning R134 effective this year, and Dupont has already scaled back production. Additionally, both the EU and the EPA have already approved a replacement - called 1234YF - and GM will start using it for the 2013 model year.

Couple small problems with 1234YF - it's flammable and it's toxic to humans. Also, it contains hydrogen fluoride, which when combined with water forms hydrofluoric acid.

Some first responder and safety organizations in Europe, notably in Germany, are strongly protesting this move over safety reasons. Conceivably, even a minor accident that caused a leak in the A/C system could cause the vehicle to catch on fire and/or release toxic chemicals which the occupants and/or first responders could be exposed to.

The spokeperson for one safety group even all but said the real reason for this change was because Dupont's patents on R134 were running out, and they had to get use of a new refrigerant mandated to keep their monopoly.

Back in my Navy days operating submarine nuclear power plants, one of the tongue-in-cheek inside jokes was "a few must die for the continued safe operation of naval nuclear power". But that's all it was, a joke.

Apparently the EPA decided it isn't a joke, and it's perfectly acceptable for a certain number of people to get injured or even killed from use of this refrigerant in vehicles, as long as it's for the good of the environment.

If you own an older MB diesel that's been converted to R134a, might be worth it to trot down to Walmart and stock up on a few cans, until we see how this mess is going to play out.

__________________
Just say "NO" to Ethanol - Drive Diesel

Mitchell Oates
Mooresville, NC
'87 300D 212K miles
'87 300D 151K miles - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD 67K miles
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club

I'd noticed prices going up and up as well. I guess that's the cause.

__________________
1991 350SDL. 230,000 miles (new motor @ 150,000). Blown head gasket

Tesla Model 3. 205,000 miles. Been to 48 states!
Past: A fleet of VW TDIs.... including a V10,a Dieselgate Passat, and 2 ECOdiesels.
2014 Cadillac ELR
2013 Fiat 500E.

Here is a fact sheet from the California Air Resources Board. Feel for us in California. Now we must pay a $10 deposition for each can, and to get that back we need to return the empty can to the store with the receipt within 90 days. No more hoarding.

Facts About Automotive Refrigerants: Retailer Requirements

Do-It-Yourself recharging of automobile air conditioners: A significant source of climate-changing gases. The refrigerant R134a is a highly potent greenhouse gas. A single 12-ounce container has the same climate-changing potential as all the emissions from a typical California vehicle driven over 1,000 miles. California’s new regulation requires more control over R-134a and its containers to reduce unnecessary releases.

What is the purpose of this regulation?
The regulation will reduce:
• Greenhouse gases emissions
• Waste going to landfills
Californians will gain these benefits while still being able to charge their own vehicle’s air conditioner.

Who must comply with the regulation?
The primary regulatory burden will fall on manufacturers; however, those who sell automotive refrigerant products to consumers who recharge motor vehicle air conditioning systems must also comply.

What are the regulatory requirements for retailers?
Retailers must:
• Collect a $10 deposit at the time of product sale to the consumer.
• Return deposits when containers are brought back within 90 days of purchase, with a sales receipt and undamaged (After 90 days retailers may refund a deposit at their discretion).
• store returned containers in a manner compatible for transport to recycling facilities.
Deposits paid to the distributor or manufacturer as part of the wholesale cost must be returned when used canisters are returned.
Manufacturers must coordinate with and assist retailers in transporting used containers to recycling facilities.
In addition, retailers must:
• Distribute the manufacturers’ educational brochures to consumers.
• Display an 8 1/2” X 11” manufacturer-supplied placard next to the automotive-refrigerant products.
Finally, upon the request of the California Air Resources Board (ARB), retailers must report annual sales and returned-container data by March 1 of the following year. Report forms will be available from the ARB or the product manufacturers. Retailers must maintain records of invoices of the product bought and sold for a minimum of five years.
California retailers must only sell small-container automotive-refrigerant products certified by the ARB.

When does the regulation take effect?
the regulation took effect January 1, 2010.the one-year sell-through period, allowing the sale of canisters produced before the effective date, has expired. As of January 1, 2011, only small-container refrigerant products certified by the ARB may be sold in California.
Anyone selling small cans of R-134a for automotive air-conditioner replenishing must now meet all retailer requirements specified above.

http://www.1234facts.com/healthsafety.php

__________________
'81 MB 300SD, '82 MB 300D Turbo (sold/RIP), '04 Lincoln Town Car Ultimate

Sooner or later every car falls apart, ours does it later!
-German Narrator in a MB Promotion Film about the then brand new W123.

Read this a few years back.

Might as well buy some as I have a few newer vehicles that came with 134A factory. The rest are still R12 and it continues to drop in price

__________________
I'm not a doctor, but I'll have a look.

'85 300SD 245k
'87 300SDL 251k
'90 300SEL 326k

Six others from BMW, GM, and Ford.

Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty.[/IMG]

I have most of a 30# can of R12 that I bought just in case after small cans were no longer available. Guess I'll put enough 134 away to take care of the 2 vehicles I have that use it.

On another note, there is a beautiful 83SD at the yard. I tried to buy it & was quoted $1200. It has been hit & I'm thinking $300 to $400. It has been there a few weeks & only the seats, CCU & console wood are gone. I gave him my card & asked him to call me before crushing it. The guy wanted $75 for a door panel. I'm too cheap for that.

__________________
85SD 240K & stopped counting painted, putting bac together. 84SD 180,000. sold to a neighbor and member here but I forget his handle. The 84 is much improved from when I had it. 85TD beginning to repair to DD status. Lots of stuff to do.

Hmm, do I make the 300D R12 or just stick with the 134A... I think I might pickup a few cans of 134A

I got several cans of R134 for $8 each at my local Big-Lots last week. (Was $5 last year) I may go back for some more if they haven't already sold out.

Happy Motoring, Mark

__________________
DrDKW

This is even more reason to avoid refitting an original R-12 system to 134.

__________________

Don't Chrome them; polish them

$8 at Big Lots starting today....just picked up 12 cans.

__________________
14 E250 Bluetec 4Matic "Sinclair", Palladium Silver on Black, 156k miles
06 E320 CDI "Rutherford", Black on Tan, 173k mi, Stage 1 tune, tuned TCU
91 300D "Otis", Smoke Silver on Tan, 143k mi, wastegate conversion, ALDA delete

19 Honda CR-V EX 67k mi
Fourteen other MB's owned and sold
1961 Very Tolerant Wife

$96. Two summers ago, I picked up a 30# cylinder for about $80. Should have bought a pallet full.

X2 on that comment. Why re-invent the wheel when there's such a simple atlernative.

Got two cans from big lots. Autozone wanted $15 a can.

Went back to my Big Lots and they've completely sold out of R134. Unlikely they'll restock it. Oh well, there's still Wal-Mart

__________________
DrDKW

I'm with retmil on the patent expiration. If a patent is still valid for 17 years, this is about the right time frame. IMO that is what happened to R12, I don't think it was the big bad monster it was made out to be. I'd rather have something that can deplete the ozone as opposed to another fuel source in the result of a crash.