Installing My New Getrag 5 Speed this weekend, few questions - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MNBenz · #1 03-09-2011, 09:06 PM

Well I got my hands on a Getrag 717400 5 speed that will be going into my 1983 300TD this weekend. I've already done a 4 speed 240 swap, but that transmission is in pretty bad condition.

This should be a fairly easy job since I've already installed the pedal assembly, clutch hydraulics, and have been down there before. But i do have 2 questions about this new 5 speed:

What type of throwout bearing should i use? i have 2 types from a 240. You can see in the pictures one is longer
Any advice on oil for the Getrag? I was thinking royal purple manual tranny fluid. Anyone know how much this 5 speed holds?

vstech · #2 03-09-2011, 09:39 PM

I'm fairly certain that the tranny uses ATF.
gear oil would be WAAAAAY too thick.
some use 30weight motor oil in it with success.

Hit Man X · #3 03-09-2011, 09:42 PM

Well be careful, I put 30W in the Getrag in my 735i and it shifted quite poorly.

aaa · #4 03-09-2011, 10:33 PM

The two throwout bearings are for iron vs aluminum case transmissions. I assume since the 5 speed is also aluminum it would use the same as the 4 speed aluminum, since they're pretty similar from the front.

75Sv1 · #5 03-10-2011, 07:37 AM

I think Royal Purple recomends their Synchromesh in these transmissions. I think that is what I used in my 240D 4 spd. Were did you get the 5-spd from? Also, check Amsoil.
Tom

Stevo · #6 03-10-2011, 10:28 AM

In my notes I have PN 12020-11978 as the throw out bearing for the later one piece tranny.

I used too use Amsoil ATF but have switched to Mobil 1 5W-30 Synthetic Oil in my 5 speed trannies.

Stevo · #7 03-10-2011, 02:49 PM

Here is a post that a friend send my way some years ago which my be of interest to the Getrag 5 spd owners. I have this noise in two of my Getrag fivers and switching to the heavier oil helped.

Subject: five spd tranny, clanking rattle at idle WITH THE CLUTCH ENGAGED.
Cc:
Bcc:
Attached:
Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
Ijust got this email in response to an inquiry that I sent to "Metric Motors" about working on
transmissions. I honestly can't remember how I found them. But anyway, this sounds like a pretty
definitive answer:
My note to them was as follows:
"I understand that you specialize in BMW, but hope you might have information on this problem. I
have a Euro-market Mercedes 300d, 5 cyl diesel, natural aspirated, with 5 speed Getrag 00
transmission. Transmission works fine, but makes an irritating clanking rattle at idle WITH THE
CLUTCH ENGAGED. I seem to recall reading that Porsche 944\'s had a problem like this with a
Getrag 5-speed.
Questions:
1) Are you familiar with this transmission? (I don\'t have a model number, but could get one.) Is this
a familiar problem?
2) Can you get parts for Getrags of this age?
3) Would you be willing to repair it? I live in Maine, but it\'s light enough to ship.
4) If the answer is \"no\" to #3, can you recommend a shop (hopefully east coast) that is familiar
with these.
Thanks very much."

Their response:
"Hello SEa,
What you are describing is a Reverse Idler Gear - also know as an Idler Gear or Auxiliary Gear.
It's a common problem with Getrag Transmission. Among BMWs, the 260, 240 and 280 and 250
all share this same problem. From the factory, there is a shaft in the Tranny, that supports the
Reverse Idler Gear and it is NOT shimmed properly against the case (too much clearance.)
Somewhere after 125,000 to 150,000 miles and/or without regular oil changes, the rattle develops.
To fix it (in a BMWanyway), the entire transmission must be disassembled and reshimmed. Your
transmission won't break or prevent you from getting home but it is annoying.
All that said, we do occasionally receive inquiries like yours - about working on Getrags for other
car models.
Sadly, it is not that simple. Our expertise is only with BMWs so we won't be able to do the repair
for you.
Also, we really don't know of a shop that can.
Sincerely, Teddy Rowe"

MNBenz · #8 03-11-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevo

In my notes I have PN 12020-11978 as the throw out bearing for the later one piece tranny.

I used too use Amsoil ATF but have switched to Mobil 1 5W-30 Synthetic Oil in my 5 speed trannies.

Excellent advice to all! Ah yes, this makes sense about the throwout bearing. I'll use the one i have for the aluminum transmissions.

Ok good to know about the oil. I'm thinking i'll with Mobil 1 Synthetic... Up here in the cold it's necessary to have oil that moves in the cold.

I bought the transmission off the parts thread. It came with a 617 manual FW which i'm picking up from the machine shop today. I have a front driveshaft piece from a factory manual wagon. I HOPE it fits...it was just a hair short when i put in the 240 manual. This one is a little longer so i'm thinking it's going to work

lutzTD · #9 03-11-2011, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNBenz

Excellent advice to all! Ah yes, this makes sense about the throwout bearing. I'll use the one i have for the aluminum transmissions.

Ok good to know about the oil. I'm thinking i'll with Mobil 1 Synthetic... Up here in the cold it's necessary to have oil that moves in the cold.

I bought the transmission off the parts thread. It came with a 617 manual FW which i'm picking up from the machine shop today. I have a front driveshaft piece from a factory manual wagon. I HOPE it fits...it was just a hair short when i put in the 240 manual. This one is a little longer so i'm thinking it's going to work

my calculation put the 5spd drive shaft for a 300D at 15.75 and for the 4spd at 19.5, you will need to get it shortened again for the 5spd

if you have the 240D 5spd shaft it is 20.25 which would make it also too long

MNBenz · #10 03-11-2011, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutzTD

my calculation put the 5spd drive shaft for a 300D at 15.75 and for the 4spd at 19.5, you will need to get it shortened again for the 5spd

if you have the 240D 5spd shaft it is 20.25 which would make it also too long

Dang. The piece i have is from a 79 4 speed manual 300TD. I bought it off craigslist a year ago. It was barely short when I put the 240 manual into my wagon, i had to get a 240 piece modified.

So the piece that's in there now might work too, i was just hoping a factory piece would slip in. Then my wagon would almost be like a euro 5 speed manual.. .just have to get shopping for some bumpers

lutzTD · #11 03-11-2011, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNBenz

Dang. The piece i have is from a 79 4 speed manual 300TD. I bought it off craigslist a year ago. It was barely short when I put the 240 manual into my wagon, i had to get a 240 piece modified.

So the piece that's in there now might work too, i was just hoping a factory piece would slip in. Then my wagon would almost be like a euro 5 speed manual.. .just have to get shopping for some bumpers

I dont know about the wagons. maybe the front is different, but the 5spd one is definitely not going to be the same as the auto or 4spd one. here is a reference of how the DS measurements were taken

240D 4-speed manual swap in 300CD

Stevo · #12 03-11-2011, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNBenz

Excellent advice to all! Ah yes, this makes sense about the throwout bearing. I'll use the one i have for the aluminum transmissions.

Ok good to know about the oil. I'm thinking i'll with Mobil 1 Synthetic... Up here in the cold it's necessary to have oil that moves in the cold.

I bought the transmission off the parts thread. It came with a 617 manual FW which i'm picking up from the machine shop today. I have a front driveshaft piece from a factory manual wagon. I HOPE it fits...it was just a hair short when i put in the 240 manual. This one is a little longer so i'm thinking it's going to work

Sounds like your getting it together, The flywheel is nice to have. Like I said, I have no idea where that post about the rattle came from, But I have the rattle in two trannies and the heavier oil helped. Good luck on the drive shaft thing.
I put in the wrong throw out bearing when I swaped in a 5 spd and had to pull the tranny twice before I figured it out, DOH

MNBenz · #13 03-11-2011, 11:40 PM

Well I got the noisy 240d transmission out. Not too many issues, getting quick at it now

My camera is out of batteries so apologies for the horrible quality phone pictures. I put the Getrag next to a 240d aluminum transmission. With my manual wagon front shaft I put it on there, looks like it's a little less than 3 inches longer than my current setup. Dang, looks like i'll have to find somewhere to get the front section cut. A friend did my 240 section, however this Getrag is nice and I want to have a professional cut/balance done now for the front piece.

The slave on the getrag matches the aluminum 240 transmission, the cast 240's have a different one.

The 5 speed came with a different transmission mount than the auto 240 mount i was using. Bolt holes match up but definitely different. It's on the right...

When i got the transmission off it looks I have a pretty decent oil leak. Right on top of the back of the block there was a bunch of oil. Any ideas what could be leaking?

Stevo · #14 03-12-2011, 06:02 PM

One other little glitch I ran into doing the swap was the alignment pin on the aluminum adapter plate between bell-housing and eng. You may need to swap that also, or my not apply to your cars. I just remember having to go back a redo some work because of that pin.

MNBenz · #15 03-14-2011, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevo

One other little glitch I ran into doing the swap was the alignment pin on the aluminum adapter plate between bell-housing and eng. You may need to swap that also, or my not apply to your cars. I just remember having to go back a redo some work because of that pin.

Great information, you had me worried but thankfully I got mine fit up today without need of an adapter plate. Got a lot done today, here's the list:

Removed pressure plate and clutch disk
Removed old 240d flywheel
Installed new 617 manual flywheel
Reinstalled pressure plate and clutch disk using an alignment tool
Removed 240d 4 speed shifter
Installed w201 5 speed shifter. Two holes line up perfect, cinch them down to find where the 2 new holes need to be. Drill holes and install shifter. The back up light switch doesn't use the same connector for the 2 shifters, but it's two wires to splice and it working.
Filled Getrag 5 speed with Mobil 1 synthetic ATF
Installed Getrag. Phew, this was WAY heavier than the 240d transmission!
Installed transmission mount. This went up easy with a jack under the back of the transmission.
Installed a slave cylinder, was slighter different shape than 240's
Bolted up the center drive shaft bearing to get a measurement.

Ugh, you guys were right the front drive shaft section I have won't work. The front section needs to be 17 inches, the piece i have that i thought would fit is 18.5 inches. Now i need to figure out how/where to get it cut and balanced. Any ideas?

I need to hook up the shifter linkage. I'll get that done hopefully this week, looks like the rods need a couple inches off each and then threading.

Two steps between this wagon and a functioning 5 speed.... drive shaft and shift rods!