Need Advice -87 190D turbo 2.5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

dcotejr · #1 10-14-2009, 10:14 AM

Hello all.

I'm looking to possibly add to my stable, and am seriously considering this vehicle posted by a member:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=262547

My main question is - what sort of major mechanical issues would I need to be prepared to deal with if I bought the car?

I am aware that it is somewhat rare so used part availability may be an issue...

Can anyone weigh in on this?

Thanks!

pmari · #2 10-14-2009, 10:33 AM

Auto transmission is the weak point. Nice ride though

babymog · #3 10-14-2009, 11:00 AM

Auto-trans, rust at jack points in the rockers, odometers (un-known mileage), Climate control (due usually to a seized aux. pump), and on the '86/'87 the weak head casting on 602 and 603 engines.

A regular grin to drive. I had one, really loved it, a little squirrely on the rain though off the line unless you have really good rain tires. I would still have it but it was a little small for me, the headliner and my hair were constantly battling.

dcotejr · #4 10-16-2009, 06:09 PM

... for the input. I'm trying to decide whether to pursue the 190D or go with a 86 SDL with similar miles and price...

dieselchatter · #5 10-17-2009, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcotejr

... for the input. I'm trying to decide whether to pursue the 190D or go with a 86 SDL with similar miles and price...

Interesting choices.

Although when new the 190 series claimed the same front leg room as the W-126 they did not mention that when the driver seat is pushed back to get that leg room, only people without legs could ride to the rear of the driver. I am six feet and 190 LBS and am comfortable driving this car but the seat is rearward somewhat. Zero to sixty times should impress for an old diesel. On the hi-way my mileage varies in the low thirties. I understand the n.a. model should get better mpg. I think the fuel tank is about 14.3 GLs so when the reserve lamp comes on I am usually less than 400 miles.

You will not have a seating problem with the extra inches the SDL offers in the rear nor will the mileage be quite as high. I believe the fuel tank is about 23.3 gallons in the SDL which should provide plenty of miles between fill-ups.

I truly enjoy driving the 126 and the 201 but for differing reasons. Room and comfort in the 126 and quick nimble commute without a passenger in the 201.

dcotejr · #6 10-17-2009, 11:13 AM

Yeah, I know they should have a different highway ride to them. As you can see in my sig, I also have an 81 SD, and it has spoiled me rotten. Have owned it for 12 years, and it has been my DD for about a year. I have back problems, but I have taken three 1000+ mile drives in it during the last year with no pain. Other, mere mortal cars cause me pain in less than 100 miles... The issue I have is that it is not the best "around-town" auto.

I'm thinking the 190D would be better at that. Backseat leg space is not a concern. And I'm only 5'10"/180 lbs, so I don't think I'll be cramped.

On the other hand, the SDL I'm sure would be another vehicle to spoil me on the open road. And the one I am considering has very good visual appeal...

Maybe I just get both??? (I wish...don't have enough garage space now!)

Don

sasquatchgeoff · #7 10-17-2009, 11:49 AM

The squealing from the blower is usually an indication that the blower motor is toast. When I replaced mine (exhibiting identical symptoms at first) it was a two hour job and an $80 used replacement blower - much easier and certainly way cheaper than the $1200 that an indy quoted me to do it. The old blower motor had eventually seized.

The head issue with that engine is not the casting as much as the head gasket. MB issued a couple of fixes - namely beefing up the gasket with Viton in a couple of places. You should pay close attention to the coolant reservoir for oil or oil stains. I would have much more concern about the 86 SDL - that is a 603, and could have the dreaded #14 head - which is the head that cracks (for some).

I am 6'6' and I agree with the head room and legless rear passenger issues, but minor annoyances considering the performance efficiency of the engine/chassis. The 201 was a next generation engineering effort on the part of MB, and the platform engineering prototype that the "C" class was built from.

dcotejr · #8 10-17-2009, 03:31 PM

I just replaced the blower motor in my '81 last weekend. A $50 fleabay part, and a couple of hours labor total, including cleaning out 28 years worth of leaves, bugs, whatever... So that's not a big deal...

My main concern are engines, transmissions, and to a lesser extent, A/C.

The thing I love about these cars is that most of the repairs/maintenance are mechanical. I can deal with mechanical, but when it comes to electronic, I am in uncomfortable territory...

sasquatchgeoff · #9 10-17-2009, 04:32 PM

The 201 blower replacement requires you to pull the windshield wiper assembly - not the easiest of tasks, but certainly do-able. Other chassis blower replacement procedures may be different.

The early 603's (the 300SDL you mentioned) were equipped with the #14 head and MB replaced some of them via a tech bulletin. If you decide to go that route, I would make sure to determine the head # to see what you will be getting into.

I bought my 190D with a rebuilt transmission still under warranty. It went out with about 3K left on the warranty - the defective front seal was due to the rebuilder's error - I have about 50K of mostly highway miles on the fresh one with no issues. If the engine was taken care of, it should last you another 100K before you will need to replace head gasket, alternator, vacuum pump, etc.

babymog · #10 10-17-2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sasquatchgeoff

The head issue with that engine is not the casting as much as the head gasket.

Actually, it was also the head. The '87 OM602 head was the same design and the '87 OM603 head, suffered from cracks into the water jacket just as the #14 OM603 head, and was upgraded to eliminate that known weakness. My '87 190D had to have the head replaced. The casting numbers and this problem are mentioned in the FSM, might check the casting number.

Also, I easily got mid-30s MPG on the highway at 75mph, and occasionally was able to break 40mpg on a slower trip (round-trip mileage averaging 60mph-ish on 2-lane highways and summer fuel). A wonderful car for fuel mileage if in good tune.

sasquatchgeoff · #11 10-17-2009, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymog

Actually, it was also the head. The '87 OM602 head was the same design and the '87 OM603 head, suffered from cracks into the water jacket just as the #14 OM603 head, and was upgraded to eliminate that known weakness. My '87 190D had to have the head replaced. The casting numbers and this problem are mentioned in the FSM, might check the casting number.

Also, I easily got mid-30s MPG on the highway at 75mph, and occasionally was able to break 40mpg on a slower trip (round-trip mileage averaging 60mph-ish on 2-lane highways and summer fuel). A wonderful car for fuel mileage if in good tune.

You are right - I was assuming that the head for the '87 602.961 was virtually the same as my '86 602.911 (NA) - which it wasn't, at least in the areas around #1 cyl water jacket and pre-chamber diameter. Had to review the FSM repair notes 01-0400.

X2 on the fuel mileage

dcotejr · #12 10-17-2009, 08:34 PM

Interesting stuff...

So, if I understand this correctly, the OM603 head to watch out for is #14. Is that the same head number to be wary of for the OM602?

I really appreciate all the information. Will certainly allow me to be more prepared and ask the right questions...

Thanks!

sasquatchgeoff · #13 10-17-2009, 09:46 PM

OM602 is a 5 cylinder, OM603 is 6 cylinder. If the 190D is an 87, it is definitely a five cylinder and there is the potential for the head to be weak. The repair note simply states:

The bolt flutes on the exhaust side have been
reinforced and the recesses (hollows) between
the coolant ducts on the outlet side filled to
prevent cracks in the cylinder head water jacket.
The baseplate on the intake side was reinforced
from previously 11 mm to 14 mm.

The production breakpoint for the modified head was 09/87. No head ID #'s are given. That is only the case for the 602.961 (190D) The 603 would be for the 300SDL you are thinking about, and the 14 in the head identifier # is the one to be wary of for that car only.

For the 190D, check the manufacture information badge and determine if it was made before 9/87 or after. The heads after 9/87 were fixed.

dcotejr · #14 10-17-2009, 10:14 PM

Outstanding. Thanks.

dcotejr · #15 10-18-2009, 02:28 PM

shows that it was manufactured in 03/87.

When you say it has the potential to be a problem, any idea of the incidence rate? I know the 87 190D 2.5 turbo is rarer that the SDL's, so that may not be something that could even be calculated...

The car appears to be above average for a 22 yo MB, but I have been "stuck" on a few deals before. If I decide to purchase, I'd want to factor this issue into the price I offer...