Can a Diesel (Kubota tractor) start without any Glow Plugs, Intake Air heating? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Ken300D · #16 05-07-2008, 09:23 AM

The older Yanmar tractors had an option for cold-weather starting called Thermo-Start. It was an electric heater element in the air intake throat. You turned the key counter-clockwise to engage the thermostart, and the heater element started glowing. Then there was a little cannister of diesel fuel that started dripping down onto the heater element. There were no glow plugs.

This was essentially a small fire in the air intake.

Early models had a cannister with screw top that you had to refill. Later models had the cannister top off by being in the injector fuel return line.

You can do essentially the same thing on that Kubota with a hair blow dryer, or better, a heat gun. You could try a propane torch but need to be careful not to melt anything. A heat gun would be pretty good.

It's just a matter of heating up the intake air to facilitate compression ignition.

Ken300D

vstech · #17 05-07-2008, 09:41 AM

don't worry about it, when you see the tractor, you will see the Glow Plugs if they are there. we have faith in you, with all the projects and subjects you have brought up over the years here...

wbuhrman · #18 05-07-2008, 10:27 AM

My Kubota has glow plugs. There is also an indicator in the dash. They are activated by turning the key part way towards start.

My Dad's old Massey Fergeson diesel does not have glow plugs, but that is a different story.

You may want to check the fuel filter.

Good luck.
wbuhrman

stephenc03 · #19 05-07-2008, 02:32 PM

My dad bought a kabota tractor back in the mid 80's for our family farm. It doesn't have glow plugs and for the size of the tractor has a small engine. a little 3 banger with probably a 2 and ahalf inch bore. These things start on compression and fuel/air only. what are the symptomes of the tractor? The most common problem is alge in the tank because these tractors sit for long periods of time.
-Stephen

myssrhl · #20 05-07-2008, 03:18 PM

From experience as a Kubota tractor dealer prior to the Ex's lawyer's attack.

Kubota's need glow.

Rebuilt too many that folks let the glows die then resorted to ether which killed them.

Yeah on a warm to hot day they start. In the morning they need glow.

So yes.

ascalise · #21 05-07-2008, 04:00 PM

My buddies kubota b7200 has a 3cyl IDI diesel with glow plugs and compression release. It will start with little to no glow if you spin it up holding the compression release knob out for a few seconds then release it.

#22 05-07-2008, 04:07 PM

I know its not a Kubota but...

The service trucks where I work each have a 10HP single cylinder Yanmar diesel to drive the air compressor and another on a tow-behind jump start cart to charge the battery bank. None of them have a glowplug or intake heater and all of them have started in sub-freezing weather without ether. They have an electric starter motor but they also have a compression release to pull start them (which I have used). They leak oil and fuel all over the place but they are otherwise impressive little beasts.

stephenc03 · #23 05-07-2008, 06:51 PM

Maybe its where i live in southern california.....i said that the kubota doesnt have glow plugs....it might but we have never used them. It had over 800 hours before the hour meter stopped working 8 years ago. The only thing that we have had done to that other than regular service is replace the clutch once. Well I guess with over 800 hours...a new clutch would be considered regular service.
-Stephen

Quote:

Originally Posted by myssrhl

From experience as a Kubota tractor dealer prior to the Ex's lawyer's attack.

Kubota's need glow.

Rebuilt too many that folks let the glows die then resorted to ether which killed them.

Yeah on a warm to hot day they start. In the morning they need glow.

So yes.

cphilip · #24 05-07-2008, 07:55 PM

This thing has a single banger with no glow plug nor anything other than a compression relief. You crank it hard and drop the hammer on her and she starts on pure compression....

turbobenz · #25 05-09-2008, 08:52 PM

I may be wrong but the reason why bigger diesels dont need gp's is becuase the cylinder size if much bigger. The proportion of air not in contact with the cylinder wall is greater. When it cranks, the air heats up and doesnt cool down as fast resulting in ignition

Mustang_man298 · #26 05-10-2008, 12:49 AM

Equipment diesels are a different world in some respects from our automotive familiarities. They have different injection systems that make vehicles quieter for the road, and starting systems vary greatly.

My late 70's JD400 with a Perkins 4 cyl engine has no glows or heaters. It does have some sort of screw on dash fitting that goes to a line that went directly to the intake manifold, which has long been disconnected, I can only assume it was probably a propane injection setup of sorts. She fires right off and runs great, unless its snowy or cold enough to snow, then you have to wait until the sun's been on the block for an hour or two.

When the rock hauler's were out here buying rock, I was able to borrow his International dozer, it used to have glows, long dead, he was cheap. He used ether on it regularly, and it had become the only way to start it. Of course, it was well beyond worn out and back....I almost blew it up once, sprayed a bit too much in it when I had forgotten to engage the kill knob, once it fired up.....I thought there was going to be schrapnel flying....needless to say it was the last time I used his dozer, can't afford to replace that.....

bustedbenz · #27 05-10-2008, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustang_man298

My late 70's JD400 with a Perkins 4 cyl engine has no glows or heaters. It does have some sort of screw on dash fitting that goes to a line that went directly to the intake manifold, which has long been disconnected,

I'm pretty sure that's the ether injection I was talking about. John Deere put it on several tractors as a last resort, since they almost never need help starting anyway. As in, that one day a year when it wont' start and the cows have to get fed no matter what. I think some cans of starting fluid will adapt to that thing and let you put a quick shot through to the intake. At least at the time they did. Something like that, anyway.

doxland · #28 05-10-2008, 09:09 PM

I have hand cranked to start a 10kW Lister Generator (Direct drive) at -10C. No batteries, no aides. Just compression. It just about killed me, but I did it. There are probably a few others who have done the same. I always considered Listers were the masters of cold start.

ZackaryMac · #29 05-10-2008, 10:49 PM

I have a Kubota B6100 hydro, with about 2500hrs on it, and there is NO way it would start w/o glowing when cold, though the compression release thing also works. It is so cold blooded that if i don't restart within a hour, it'll need re-glowing to start. It's been like this since I bought it, and other ones I've tried are like this too.

Even the Kubota 4hp diesel likes glow when cold, but doesn't need glow as often and the tractor.

As far as the ether injector for tractors goes, any that I've looked at (just a few) all give a pre-measured amount of ether for each try, not simply hold the nozzle down on the can for whatever time the operator activates the injector. I have one of these one my truck, to ensure it's tired butt will light up when I need it too.

Mustang_man298 · #30 05-11-2008, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bustedbenz

I'm pretty sure that's the ether injection I was talking about. John Deere put it on several tractors as a last resort, since they almost never need help starting anyway. As in, that one day a year when it wont' start and the cows have to get fed no matter what. I think some cans of starting fluid will adapt to that thing and let you put a quick shot through to the intake. At least at the time they did. Something like that, anyway.

Ether injection...ewwwww. I don't know why it was disconnected, but I guess I'll just leave it off, we all know what ether does to a diesel. I'd rather try propane.

Last winter there was a day I really wanted it to start, it had snowed. I got to trying everything I could think of, turned my propane torch on unlit and stuck it in the airbox, heated the intake with the torch, pointed my heatgun down the air intake on high, heated the IP with the heat gun, I fought it for an hour or so and gave up. I wasn't desperate enough to risk it with a shot of canned ether. After the sun hit it for an hour or so it fired right off.