You so funny. You post more than me.

If you think at all then this is working. Ignorance is bliss.

It is hilarious that people take offense at a suggestion that they read the shop manual to learn how to work on their cars.

If you buy one of these cars and want it to run the way the factory intended it, you will probably have to either replace the injector nozzles or manually clean them.

There have been issues with replacement injector nozzles so read about them before you buy.

Injector shops deal with these cars very little and you will be lucky to find one that knows about this type of nozzle. Even if they do know about them, there is no way that they can properly clean out the pintle holes for the price of a new nozzle. The labor cost for cleaning would exceed the cost of a new nozzle.

The cars run reasonably well with clogged pintle holes and over the years I bet that most injectors returned from injection shops as "rebuilt" or "tested good" have clogged pintle holes. Most of the cars running on the road probably have clogged pintle holes. But, if you want your car to run just right, adjust the valves first and then get the injectors working right, the way the book says.

Every time I tell about the issues here, people get emotional. It is a normal part of learning.

Twitch, why not tell us more about the "pintle hole" instead of telling us to read the book? Not everyone have access to the FSM you know.

Are you saying there is a tiny hole through the center of the pintle? what is its diameter and depth? Why is it there and how does it work? The picture you posted is too small to make out the details.

__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

You need to search it. I can't write a book about this for each new group of MB owners.

Check eBay for a manual. The classifieds here may help. The manual for any 61x engine would cover this topic. I have bought them for less than $10 and as much as $50, depending on the version.

The hole in the middle of the pintle connects to a cross hole and the bulk of the fuel injected should pass through the holes. The holes are so small that you will probably never notice them without magnification. Bosch sells tiny wires to clean them, another member here posted that he uses a dental drill, I have used a tiny brass wire. Be careful not to break off the tool in the hole. Steel can scratch the sealing surfaces and make the injector leak.

Another often overlooked part of injector maintenence is the leak-test. If the injector leaks at pressures approaching pop-pressure it is probably not worth messing with, cleaning may fix it.

This link will take you to a thread with what is probably the best information on this topic that you will find on this site.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=155294

This is a quote from the thread I linked to in my previous post.

The guy that posted that thread could have been one of the most valuable members on this forum and he was treated so badly, much like me in this thread, he doesn't post here anymore.

Wow, I don't even post to threads about messing with the ALDA. If you think this thread is negative....

Twitch, thanks for posting the links to those threads. Beagle does make some very good points. If the cleaner/additive stirs up crap, it is possible that the crap could cause clogging (if you are unlucky) that otherwise would not occur if the cleaner or additve was never used. .

__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

Read the following statements you made and maybe you'll understand why your good advice gets glossed over or missed and you wonder why people take offense:

"Another free ad for Diesel Purge. And again by someone with just about 100 posts..."

"It's your money and time and your car. Waste what you want to waste. Playing mechanic is fine if that is what you want to do. Use DP and you may get to play alot of mechanic and even pay some real mechanics, real money."

" Consumerism is deeply ingrained and difficult to get past, you can do it if think for yourself."

"I think a lot of the posts on DP are free advertising."

"Some people will tell you that cocaine makes them think better. People are easily fooled."

"If you think at all then this is working. Ignorance is bliss."

We may be wrong on DP, but these assumptions/judgments you make about the members who have posted on this thread and other DP-related topics are totally baseless. And you wonder why people are treating you badly?

The previous statements are all very constructive ways to suggest this, huh? No, their tone runs more along the lines of, "you ignorant %#$%, read the *&*@* manual before you ruin the car."

__________________
1983 300SD (W126, OM617) with 404k miles!
(OK, so the engine was replaced at 147k mi)

Hi,

I'm back. And you're wondering why people like me don't return? I've been working on my car TK! Now I can take a break and deal with this post.

TK, why are my posts about cleaning my injectors not convincing? You think I'm making this up? I only posted 100 times? That's a lot! Thanks for reminding me how much time I'm wasting online instead of actually working on my car. Not "convincing"? I'll have to look back and see where my lies fell apart. Sheesh!

Hey, I was just really excited about the big change. I have taken my injectors down (TK I really have, on my 300TD and 240D, never read the FSM, just took them apart and cleaned them. It helped the first few times I tried it). And the three times I've done it over the last few years, they were really crudded up. A little noodle of soot was formed dangling off the pintle like an icicle of tar, and a atoll of tar formed around the nozzle. Very stubborn stuff. Note however it was only on the exposed surfaces of the injector, inside it was very clean. I had to soak the nozzels in gumout overnight before it submitted to a razor blade...and even then it took work. So I will agree with you, I don't think it is easy to just pour something into the IP and get this stuff off. But, I did clean it off manually and as I said, it didn't solve the clatter this time around, so I got desperate and tried the DP. WVO apparently causes some serious deposits on the nozzle and pintle but that is for another post.

What I was trying to get at is I don't think the problem was in the injectors but rather the mechanisms of the IP. Since it was a midrange clatter I think there was some kind of speed dependent governor that modifies timing at mid throttle that was not functioning before the DP went in.

I'm not a DP seller, in fact I think it is very expensive. To prove it, get this. The car still had a little bit of clatter at mid throttle. It was 80% gone but I got obsessive and purged with some Marvel Mystery Oil (NO NOT AN MMO seller either!) that I bought for a small fraction of the price of the DP and it improved the lack of clatter further. After the DP I had to really work at it to get it into the right load range and rpm range for it to clatter, now I cannot do it at all. So I think next time this comes up, I'll purge with the other half of the MMO that is left over. MMO costs 5x less that DP. Maybe I'll even try ATF if I'm really feeling cheap.

Thanks to all the Diesel Discussion folks who thanklessly provide solutions and helpful tips here that have saved me over and over. I was just trying to give back a bit with this post...along with my other lies ahem posts.

Cheers,
Yoko

Thanks for posting that. I never heard of it before. Gives you something to think about.

Scott

__________________
Scott
1982 Mercedes 240D, 4 speed, 275,000
1988 Porsche 944 Turbo S (70,000)
1987 Porsche 911 Coupe 109,000 (sold)
1998 Mercedes E300 TurboDiesel 147,000 (sold)
1985 Mercedes 300D 227,000 (totaled by inattentive driver with no insurance!)
1997 Mercedes E300 Diesel 236,000 (sold)
1995 Ducati 900SS (sold)
1987 VW Jetta GLI 157,000 (sold)
1986 Camaro 125,000 (sold - P.O.S.)
1977 Corvette L82 125,000 (sold)
1965 Pontiac GTO 15,000 restored (sold)

From what you are posting I don't think that you have cleaned your injectors yet, read the book. You may have done more damage than good.

You posted before that you had this problem fixed. Was it fixed then and is it fixed now?

I already explained this but otherwise your post is on point, thanks.

Look people, we are all just a bunch of fools, get over it and learn how to fix your car correctly, pay someone to do it, or accept it the way it is.

Hello Everyone,

I just thought I'd close this after a few months of observation on my car. I was really excited about Lubro Moly and posted it here thinking it stopped my car's high rpm/high load pinging. Well...I think TK actually has some good info (even though he needs to go to charm school).

A tank after the diesel purge my car started doing the same old thing. Pinging when it hit a narrow high rpm range. Like many other people on this forum, the purge had some temporary effect that soon wore off. At the time I was thinking it was just running on some new juice (some purge may have been returned to the tank and was acting like an additive), and when exhausted the car just ran bad again.

As usual, it seemed to run better on WVO. Hmmm, maybe a viscosity effect?

It has been many months now and I scraped up some money to buy new injector nozzels. I bought the Monarch variety because they were cheapest. I didn't rig a pop tester and just screwed them together and installed them. The car runs like another car...better that is. Ping is gone, idle smoother. Maybe a tiny bit more power but not much in that department.

Just thought I'd come back and post this for those who were curious.

Oh yeah, TK, thanks for the info on the pintle holes. I never knew what those were for. The first time I cleaned my injectors I left them in my ultrasonic cleaner overnight. The second time I scrubbed off the carbon deposits but didn't bother ultrasounding. Big mistake. That may have been the difference that I observed between my first and second DIY cleaning. And I have to admit, I didn't know WTF I was doing...clearly I have the pintles with the holes, and they are all clogged up on inspection today.

I was thinking, "how can such a tiny hole matter, and how could they expect them to stay open especially when I run WVO (hahaha)." The WVO does leave a burnt molasses residue on the injector tips, prechambers seem relatively clean though (for another post).

Incidentally, the Monarch pintles are holeless. Yeah, now I'm having a flashback, the first time I cleaned using ultrasound I could actually see light through the pintle holes. I recall wondering how the heck they drilled them. The second time I cleaned I didn't have the patience or the scientific discipline to actually repeat the ultrasound.

Hey, I hate to admit I'm a fool but maybe it'll help some of you find your pinging gremilin. I've gotten so much good info here, the least I could do was tell you I was wrong and what finally worked.

Lubro Moly probably can solve some problems, but in my case, new injectors were the ticket. I'm thinking I should ultrasound my old pintles, but hell, maybe I'll just run the holeless ones now.

Y. Kobayashi

Thanks for posting your experience. Glad things are working well for you.

The pintles without holes should work just fine in your car.

Some people have reported that they are better for WVO than the ones with holes. You can find information on them by searching for flat cut pintle.

Given that I've just this evening dumped fuel injector cleaner that I bought at an auto parts store into my tank, how much trouble am I likely to be in? One advantage is that I filled it up before coming home and so only about 2/3 of the 12-oz. bottle fit into the tank.

This is the $3/bottle stuff like STP, "Advance Auto Parts super concentrated fuel injector cleaner". It does mention "jet fuel used as carrier". Jet fuel is kerosene.

I dump a bottle into the tank of my Rodeo maybe once every couple of years, I thought I was doing good. Well, it's certainly never harmed the Rodeo. I guess Beagle would say that if you'd done it regularly over the Benz's life then this wouldn't happen, it's only when you do it for the first time after 26 years that the problems occur.

If all this can come from 8 ounces of injector cleaner I'll go buy a syphon and suck out ~16 gallons of $4 diesel fuel and throw it away (or give it to somebody for heating oil). Is that what I should do here?

__________________
1982 240D automatic
Odometer quit at 307K...about 325K now