Finally I found a station that sells B20 and bought some... - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

nhdoc · #1 07-08-2007, 07:04 AM

I never used biodiesel before. I knew there were some stations on the western part of NH that sold it so yesterday I searched biodiesel.org and found one was at exit 16 on I-89, right on our way to Vermont. I stopped on the way home and filled the tank with B20 (it only needed about 11 gallons) so I really landed up with a tank of B10 since I already had 10 or so gallons of D2 in there. The price was exactly the same as their D2 ($2.85). The car seemed to like it and the guy in the pickup filling up next to me said his truck gets about 2-3 MPG more running it than he gets on D2...I always thought it would be less.

Anyway, we drove the 90 or so miles home and the gauge now sits just below the 1/1 mark, that's about what it shows getting in the low 30s in my car, about what I have been getting lately too. I wish there was someplace a little closer to buy it but hopefully soon there will be a station in/near my home town. The engine did seem a little quieter to me but that could be placebo...it's worth it just to say I took some money out of the pockets of OPEC though even if the engine doesn't run any differently on it.

#2 07-08-2007, 07:13 AM

I use B20, only because it's the same price as ULSD where I get my fuel.

Not much benefit. Exhaust smells a little different and no change in economy but thats about it. Not worth hunting it down or going out of the way to get it.

Hit Man X · #3 07-08-2007, 07:24 AM

That hippie Willie Nelson has a B20 station outside of Dallas, I try to fuel up there as I'd rather have his stoner-ass have my money than some arab attempting to install a golf course on top of his multi-level mansion.

When in Hou, I try to produce my own B100 (poorly I may add) or just fill up with Chris and the gang down at Houston Biodiesel.

WINGAS · #4 07-08-2007, 07:25 AM

Yeah, that is unless your 606 needs better fuel than the D2, which mines does. Pings like crazy on D2. Runs quiet as a church mouse on a bio blend. Trying to figure on the right blend right now. Plus, its renewable, and we dont send men to die to secure our supply of it.

Does Willie make it from hemp seed? Does the exhaust smell like a big bambu bird flyin'!?

aklim · #5 07-08-2007, 08:35 AM

Did you try other stations? I had a place where once I filled up, I lost mileage and power because the fuel was bad. It happened consistently enough for me to never buy from them again.

I did a splash mix so that I can keep the D2 consistent as possible. At B40, I lost mileage.

Hit Man X · #6 07-08-2007, 08:46 AM

I have noticed a power and economy loss on B100 too.

But, I'd rather put that money into the pocket of someone that lives in the US.

TMAllison · #7 07-08-2007, 11:12 AM

I get ~10% less mpg using B99 in my 606. It does idle quieter using bio vs D2 also although is relative as it idles pretty quiet on D2 too.

Biodiesel300TD · #8 07-08-2007, 12:16 PM

Congrats on your first tank of biodiesel.

Unfortunetly biodiesel has something like 7% less energy in it than petro diesel so there is no way anyone can get higher milage using biodiesel, unless they change their driving habits when using BD. It has a higher cetane rating than petro, and it has better lubrication properties than petro. The emissions are much cleaner when using biodiesel in any blend. NOx is the only thing that comes out of the tailpipe in higher concentrations with BD than petro.

I've got 20,000 biodiesel miles on my wagon. With no problems. I run B99 has much as possible, and blend in the winter. So my use yearly average is somewhere between B50 and B75. I always get nervous when I fill up with diesel because she runs louder and a little rougher. But I have to remind myself that it's the diesel.

nhdoc · #9 07-08-2007, 12:23 PM

I've actually been in email contact with the guy who runs the station and has several others selling Bio-D around the state, but his closest one is still 40 miles from me.

He asked me to suggest a nearby location and I did, so, maybe he'll approach a large station I frequent which has ample room to add it as an alternative to their D2.

Even though Bio has lower energy than D2, is it possible that in a low concentration blend the added lubricity offsets the lower energy? I have read studies that show that with as little as 2-5% Bio-D the lubricity of the blended product equals that of B100. It would seem that might help to explain why those who use B99 or B100 get worse mileage but the guy I ran into claims he's gotten consistently better mileage on B20. Just thinking out loud.

bdgr · #10 07-08-2007, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hit Man X

That hippie Willie Nelson has a B20 station outside of Dallas, I try to fuel up there as I'd rather have his stoner-ass have my money than some arab attempting to install a golf course on top of his multi-level mansion.

When in Hou, I try to produce my own B100 (poorly I may add) or just fill up with Chris and the gang down at Houston Biodiesel.

DFW Biodiesel is in North Fort Worthless, they sell B20 and B100 at the pump. I've been running thier B20.

Bio300TDTdriver · #11 07-08-2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhdoc

I've actually been in email contact with the guy who runs the station and has several others selling Bio-D around the state, but his closest one is still 40 miles from me.

He asked me to suggest a nearby location and I did, so, maybe he'll approach a large station I frequent which has ample room to add it as an alternative to their D2.

Even though Bio has lower energy than D2, is it possible that in a low concentration blend the added lubricity offsets the lower energy? I have read studies that show that with as little as 2-5% Bio-D the lubricity of the blended product equals that of B100. It would seem that might help to explain why those who use B99 or B100 get worse mileage but the guy I ran into claims he's gotten consistently better mileage on B20. Just thinking out loud.

From what I've read your thinking out loud is right on. The few times I couldn't get B99 I used B-20 and saw an increase in mpg.

Not only does a lower blend increase the lubricity it also helps boost the cetane.

Chris

guru · #12 07-08-2007, 04:44 PM

http://www.brevardbiodiesel.org/map/bd.html

is a great filler-up locator.

Some in the NorEast get theirs delivered home/work 100 gal at a time.

My n/a 300td runs great on good B99, quiet, smooth, cooler and smells waaaay better than a high dino blend. I feel a small power loss and what seems like better MPG. And as far as I know, not a single US service person has been killed in the procurment of veggie oil. That's worth going out of your way for IMHO.
Change filters if you feel much of a top end power loss.

TMAllison · #13 07-08-2007, 05:53 PM

I've used as little as 1qt of Bio (1.25%) and found the idle remains quieter/smoother in mine.

Jeremy5848 · #14 07-08-2007, 06:18 PM

Both of our M-Bs have been on B100/B99 since soon after purchase, the '85 for more than a year. Since we didn't have a lot of history on dino diesel, I can't comment on the mileage issue beyond acknowledging the slightly lower energy of Biodiesel. I have put some miles on the '85 with dino fuel when I'm on the road and can't find bio. Since fuel economy on the highway is usually better than in the city, I can't make a good comparison.

As little as 2% BD is supposed to compensate for the reduced lubrication properties of ULSD. B20 should be ideal for that purpose and also seems to be enough to get rid of the diesel "stink" that my wife hates.

I have been on B100 since before the introduction of ULSD so I have no data on ULSD. My chief reason for going bio was to make a small contribution to reducing our thirst for imported oil.

For about 8000 miles, I used Redline 85+ additive in the '85 (thinking it might compensate for the lower energy), and built up a database. Average MPG was about 21 city, 24 highway (CA smog car w/trap cat). Now I have stopped using it in the '85 and started using it in the '87. We'll see if there is any noticeable difference.

Jeremy

aklim · #15 07-08-2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhdoc

Even though Bio has lower energy than D2, is it possible that in a low concentration blend the added lubricity offsets the lower energy? I have read studies that show that with as little as 2-5% Bio-D the lubricity of the blended product equals that of B100. It would seem that might help to explain why those who use B99 or B100 get worse mileage but the guy I ran into claims he's gotten consistently better mileage on B20. Just thinking out loud.

In my experiments, I buy fuel from the same place but add in B100 to get the blend. That way it keeps the diesel part consistent. Even among diesel stations, sometimes there is a difference. A certain station would consistently give me about < 550 miles a tank. When I switched over to the regular spot, I get > 620 miles a tank.

As to ULSD, AFAIK, it is true that it has lower lubricity than LSD. However, supposedly, lubricity agents are added to bring it up to LSD specs. So, assuming everything is going like planned, it should be transparent, lubricity wise.

IIRC, at B40, my mileage drops. Less than that, I don't notice a thing mileage wise. Noise wise, the wife thinks that the Powerstroke runs just a tad quieter on B20. The slightly nosier engine doesn't bother me and I don't sniff the tailpipes. So, with the lower mpg, Anything more than B40 will have to be cheaper than D2 for me to buy it. Less than B40 and it will have to be priced the same.