Metal found in transmission pan. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

adrenelin500 · #1 03-13-2007, 03:09 PM

Today I changed my transmission filter and fluid and found about a tablespoon of very fine silvery colored metal and about a dozen shards of metal ranging in size from an 1/8 of an inch to a half an inch long. Before the change my fluid was pretty black, possibly from oil contamination and my tranny wasn't going into reverse. After the change the tranny does go into reverse, but I have to get the rpm's up pretty high before the car will begin to move. Is it more likely that the contamineted fluid gummed up the valve bodies or is it likely my tranny is toast? Thanks for taking to time to read. Mike J.

jshadows · #2 03-13-2007, 04:30 PM

Oil contamination? do you have an idea of how? there's no real interface between transmission fluid and any oil that I can think of. Fluid goes through radiator for cooling and that's about it, otherwise it stays in the torque converter and inside guts of transmission.

Did you smell the fluid? Black fluid is often from clutch disc material and will give a burnt smell to the fluid.

Are the other gears working fine or are they flaring too? High revving could be the sign of either a stuck valve in the body or fried b3 clutch plates which handle reverse.

F18 · #3 03-13-2007, 04:31 PM

Mike,
There are bound to be some metal filings.....but a 1/2 inch frag sounds like something major is happening. Its good that you did the change to remove the metal frags before they could do something more catastrophic.

Before I would jump to conclusions add a can of TransX (about $5.00 or 6.00 bucks). Its a heavy transmission solvent and seal conditioner. There may be a lot of tarnish and gum deposits built up if it was as dirty as you say. It may perk the trans back up. Watch the color of the fluid after you run the car for a couple weeks with the TransX in it. If fluid goes dark again with all the crud that the additive may losen up then I would do another full or partial change again to flush it out.
Good Luck

adrenelin500 · #4 03-13-2007, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jshadows

Oil contamination? do you have an idea of how? there's no real interface between transmission fluid and any oil that I can think of. Fluid goes through radiator for cooling and that's about it, otherwise it stays in the torque converter and inside guts of transmission.

Did you smell the fluid? Black fluid is often from clutch disc material and will give a burnt smell to the fluid.

Are the other gears working fine or are they flaring too? High revving could be the sign of either a stuck valve in the body or fried b3 clutch plates which handle reverse.

After considering a few different reasons for the color change ( deteriation of the interior of the oil cooler lines...an exhaust leak just below the manifold right near the vent on the tranny) I realised that my oil can leaks pretty severly due to the nuts backing off constantly. If you crawl under the car oil is dripping from every where. I'm figuring that its making its way into the tranny's vent.

THIS HAPPENS IN FIRST GEAR BUT MORE PRONOUNCED IN REVERSE:

I don't know if you would say it's flaring.Here's what's happening. Rpm's get to about 2500 car lurches then starts to move slowly.When you let off the gas the car comes to a very sharp stop and the car rocks front to back quite violently almost like what you would expect to happen if all four brakes were locked. Ther is also a noise like if the power steering pump was low on fluid when the tranny is placed in Park and Neutral. Fluid level is fine.

To answer your question it dosen't smell burnt and a friend who is a reputable mechanic can attest to that.

It would also help for you to know that about 4 months ago I also started to have shifting problems with the trans. First off my rpm's wouldn't exceed 200 0 unless the shift lever was used to manually shift then eventually the tranny wouldn't come out of 1st gear. I changed the fluid out several times , excluding the torgue converter and added some sea foam. The tranny started to shift just fine but about a month ago I noticed the fluid was pretty black again and symptoms were arising.

The only question in my mind is..do the metal shards indicate disaster or does my tanny have a chance?

Note: The use of " tranny " does not meen transvestite , and the user assumes no liability of jokes that may result.

Good night and God bless.

Mustang_man298 · #5 03-13-2007, 11:07 PM

You found large pieces of metal in the pan, that is NEVER a good thing no matter what anyone says. It's normal to have some greyish sludge, an occasional metallic flake like what's in metallic paint, but never anything larger. Something is eating itself up, the odd behaviors when in gear and noises when out of gear indicate that as well. You are running on borrowed time with it and will need to consider getting another one or rebuilding this one. Contaminated fluids can sometimes cause the friction material in the clutches to disintegrate, but that shows up as dark, milky, or thick fluid and fibrous paper like chunks in the pan. Snaprings coming off and letting parts gnash, gear teeth failing, bearings failing, sprags failing, those are the kinds of things that dump metal peices in the pan. I have a Bronco that behaved the same way as you mention, hard choppy engagments, resistive to move, moving back and forth in park like it wanted to drive, etc. It turned out a snapring had broken into pieces, a 1" long piece had gotten up into a clutch pack and was lodged in between the plates causing that clutch to stay partly engaged, it made that clutch drag & fight with the others and try to go even in park. The piece had then broken again and moved down into the pressure plate and servo piston area, where it chewed up all kinds of metal. The clutches were black toast and resembled spun engine bearings, the entire drum/piston assy had to be replaced, along with other gears that the little pieces had gotten into, it was a mess. I went to the wrecker and found another one cheap that I used as a parts donor.

Matt L · #6 03-13-2007, 11:11 PM

Your description of the symptoms spell disaster. The shards within confirm it. There are no normal circumstances where you would find metal that large in the pan.

adrenelin500 · #7 03-13-2007, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustang_man298

You found large pieces of metal in the pan, that is NEVER a good thing no matter what anyone says. It's normal to have some greyish sludge, an occasional metallic flake like what's in metallic paint, but never anything larger. Something is eating itself up, the odd behaviors when in gear and noises when out of gear indicate that as well. You are running on borrowed time with it and will need to consider getting another one or rebuilding this one. Contaminated fluids can sometimes cause the friction material in the clutches to disintegrate, but that shows up as dark, milky, or thick fluid and fibrous paper like chunks in the pan. Snaprings coming off and letting parts gnash, gear teeth failing, bearings failing, sprags failing, those are the kinds of things that dump metal peices in the pan. I have a Bronco that behaved the same way as you mention, hard choppy engagments, resistive to move, moving back and forth in park like it wanted to drive, etc. It turned out a snapring had broken into pieces, a 1" long piece had gotten up into a clutch pack and was lodged in between the plates causing that clutch to stay partly engaged, it made that clutch drag & fight with the others and try to go even in park. The piece had then broken again and moved down into the pressure plate and servo piston area, where it chewed up all kinds of metal. The clutches were black toast and resembled spun engine bearings, the entire drum/piston assy had to be replaced, along with other gears that the little pieces had gotten into, it was a mess. I went to the wrecker and found another one cheap that I used as a parts donor.

The pieces of metal that I found were very thin like a razor blade...maybe parts of a snapring? One of the pieces was curved.

If I don't drive the car any further and there isn't overly extensive damage does it make a rebuild less expensive?

benzforlife · #8 03-13-2007, 11:20 PM

it might be time to pass the old girl on......

adrenelin500 · #9 03-13-2007, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benzforlife

it might be time to pass the old girl on......

It's hard to say goodbye, especially when there are so few of these cars here on the island. Most vehicles don't last past 15 years here because of all the salt used in the winter and this cars body is pretty well rust free . Besides I use WVO and it saves me a fortune. Maybe i'll store it and restore it in a few years. The most i'm going to get for the car is a grand anyway. Considering how rare these are in Newfoundland I think i'm better off putting it away.

Cervan · #10 03-14-2007, 12:27 AM

i would suggest taking and having the tranny professonally check and if need be rebuilt then have it done its really better to fix something before it breaks.

vstech · #11 03-14-2007, 12:32 AM

update your cp to show your area below your join date!
I wouldn't pass it on for sure, but I would certainly start looking for a donor tranny... again, vehicle parts, not name calling... anyway, as plentiful as the MB's are down here, there should be SOME parts up there!
John

aklim · #12 03-14-2007, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrenelin500

found about a tablespoon of very fine silvery colored metal

and about a dozen shards of metal ranging in size from an 1/8 of an inch to a half an inch long.

Before the change my fluid was pretty black

Pretty normal after a long time of not changing.

NOT NORMAL. BAD SIGN. VERY BAD.

BURNT FLUID is NEVER good. Never had a trans with black and burnt fluid that worked well from then on irrespective of what I did.

Parrot of Doom · #13 03-14-2007, 08:54 AM

When I changed the fluid on mine, the old ATF was jet black. As black as diesel engine oil.

No metal in there though, and no burnt smell either.

adrenelin500 · #14 03-14-2007, 10:28 AM

I just added sea foam to the transmission.Drove it how (about a mile or so). I parked in front of my driveway let it idle in reverse for a minute or two.Then drove backwards for about 30 feet. Suddenly the car started to accelorate faster. Stopped the car drove back to my driveway. Backed up once again and immediatlly reverse worked normally. Drive is also starting to come around. I'm not sure how long this will last but things are starting to look up. Thanks for the replys. Mike J.

aklim · #15 03-14-2007, 10:38 AM

Had a trans that behaved that way too. Of course, it broke down in a city 400 miles from home. I wouldn't drive it too far out of town.