When the weather is warm, and when I turn the key to start the car (after glowplug cycle), the starter immediately engages.

As the weather turns cooler (30's F), there is a very slight hesitation after I turn the key before the starter engages.

When the weather turns freezing (20's and below), there may be up to a 5 second delay after i turn the key before the starter engages. No click first, just total silence for a few seconds, then bang, the starter starts.

At first, I figured it was a faulty solenoid on the starter, so I replaced it with a brand newsolenoid, and the problem remains the same.

Note that when I first got this car a year ago (84 300 TD wagon), it did the same thing in cold weather. Thinking that it was the starter, I replaced the starter with a relatively new one that I took out of my previous 300D. And the car did the same thing. Thinkin that this may just be a coincidence that the solenoid on both starters were faulty, I replaced the solenoid the other day. Still does the same. So the problem is definitely not with the starter.

I checked the electrical diagram for the starting circuit, and the only other possible problems could be poor electrical connections (battery, ground strap, connection block on passenger wheel hump), or the neutral safety switch (transmission interlock), or inside the ignition switch itself.

The hesitation will occur when I am in park and in neutral, so I dont believe it is the neutral safety switch.

Tommorrow, I will clean electrical connections (especially ground strap and connection block) and see if this fixes the problem.

Anyone ever had this problem, or have other suggestions?

Thanks,

Mark

__________________
1984 300TD Wagon, 407,800 mi (current daily driver)
1985 300DT Sedan, 330,000 mi (gone to that great autobahn in the sky)

I have that exact problem with my '85 wagon. I was sure thinking either the solenoid was sticky or the bendix would stick when the grease was cold. I'm really stumped with your problem with all that you have done......

__________________
Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John

What you said is exactly what I was thinking.... bad grease in the solenoid that gets "sticky" when cold. So when I put in the new solenoid, instead of using regular silicone dielectric grease, I used synthetic bicycle chain lube...lighter than grease but still very tenacious.

I can't imagine this problem is specific to the wagons...I belive the starting system is exactly the same in sedans and wagons.

A possible hint (not wagon specific)....I work with the previous owner of this car, and a few years ago, I helped him adjust his valve clearances. To jog the engine I attached the aligator clamps of my push button tool to the two connectors in the connecting block just forward of the battery on the wheel hump, and when the ignition switch was on, I could not jog the engine like this...it just wouldnt work like in my own car. So we had to rotate the engine by hand with a socket on the main pully bolt. So maybe there is a bad connection there!?!?

My sticky solenoid theory is out the window...now I am thinking of a carbonized connection that when cold will not conduct (maybe wet and frozen?), but when the ignition key is turned, voltage is applied, the connection heats, dries, then bang...the thing starts.

I read previously that a bad ground strap connection can cause many subtle problems, and it is a regular maintenance job (cleaning ground strap connections) that most of us ignore (myself included). The strap is certainly located where it gets wet (bottom of engine, drivers side).

So first thing tommorrow morning out in the cold, I will clean ground strap connections, (as well as the connections in the block on the wheel hump).

At this point, I'm betting on the ground strap. What is the "bendix" you mentioned in your post?

Mark

__________________
1984 300TD Wagon, 407,800 mi (current daily driver)
1985 300DT Sedan, 330,000 mi (gone to that great autobahn in the sky)

This problem has been reported repeatedly in the past. I used to have it on my 85TD. Even bought a new starter in an attempt to solve it. I never installed it and the the problem has gone away. No idea what was causing it but i had precisely the same symptoms which got worse int he cold. Once it even failed to start at all around 0 degrees. No problems in over a year now.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

The bendix is the starter gear that meshes with the flywheel. It pops out to mesh with ring gear, then retracts after engine starts. I'm assuming that is how these work.

**edit**
I just went out and looked at the starter I have laying in the garage. There is also a ground strap from the solenoid to the starter housing.
Replacing your starter should have taken care of this, though. Interesting info about the terminal block for the wiring. hmmmmmm........

__________________
Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John

Now I am determined to figure this out....I will be dreaming of this tonight!

I have never had a failure to start, but I have had several "anxious moments" with this. Last year when morning temps were below zero, I turned the key and it was a full 10 to 15 seconds of absolute silence before the starter jumped to life!!!!

I will report back tomorrow.

Mark

__________________
1984 300TD Wagon, 407,800 mi (current daily driver)
1985 300DT Sedan, 330,000 mi (gone to that great autobahn in the sky)

Mark, the only thing better than knowing that there are other folks out there who have the same problems is having them fix it and tell you what it was......
My wagon is not a daily driver, plus we don't have just a whole lot of cold weather. But I get a half second delay even when it is in the 50's.

__________________
Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John

My method is proven: procrastination.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

You fellows need to do some diagnosis.

Get a meter on the terminal on the solenoid that comes from the ignition switch. See if this terminal gets an immediate 12V.......or if there is a delay.

My bet is that it's not getting an immediate 12V. This would confirm that the starter.........and any grounds.......are not the issue.

The electrical portion of the switch, itself, is the next suspect.

I will put a meter on that small wire on the solenoid and see what happens..I believe it will confirm no problem with starter.

Regarding your suggestion about the ignition switch, and the fact that the delay occurs in either park or neutral (confirming it is not the neut. safety switch),then the only other possible source of the problem is the ignition switch. I looked on the Fastlane parts site and, in fact, there is a replaceable part of the ignition switch actually called the "electrical portion"...for only $27.....there is a picture of this bad boy there...I am almost inclined to order one right now....but first, I will pry off the connector and see if any of the connections have the notorious "green crud" ...that would be nice to see...a real smoking gun. If all the pins look good, I would bet on internal problem, and a replacement part will be on the way.

That item looks like it might be a real bear to install, but I will get a look-see this morning.

Thanks a lot Brian.

Mark

__________________
1984 300TD Wagon, 407,800 mi (current daily driver)
1985 300DT Sedan, 330,000 mi (gone to that great autobahn in the sky)

if anyone ever takes apart that plug on the back of the key switch it would really help to take a pic of what wires get plugged into what sockets....
so when you go to put it back together you know what goes where... instead of the trial and error method..

__________________
1984 300D Turbo - 231k....totalled 11/30/07 RIP

I've been thinking about that switch and have problems finding it as the culprit.

My reasoning is as follows:

The switch is nothing more than a set of contacts. When the switch is rotated, the contacts either make or they don't. If they don't, I cannot see how a five second wait will suddenly allow them to close. I could certainly be wrong on this........and I hope that I am........but, intuitively, a delay caused by the switch doesn't immediately seem realistic.

I never had the "delay" problem, but I did have one instance when I could hear the starter spin, but it did not engage (it was about -5F). It started fine on the second try. I assumed it was the solenoid sticking, so I replaced the starter/solenoid with a new bosch unit, it never happened again.

Keep in mind the solinoid is an electro magnet. It must have sufficient amperage to power up. On VWs 6 volt system there used to be a fix of adding another solinoid to jump battery voltage direct to the starter solinoid. I don't understand why the starter would not engauge when jumped at the connection on the right fender unless a low budget starter button was used. Check your connections and grounds first and then replace the key switch. If the key switch has only moderate contact it cannot deliver the amperage, even if it shows good with a volt meter or test lamp.

I also found this out when I did a quicky hook up of trailer lights on my pickup. I just twisted wires together to make connection under the truck. I borrowed a friends trailer and had no lights. Rewired the trailer completely, then found my junk wiring connection was at fault. That's why I say now that soldered connections are best. Live and learn.

Good luck, and let us in on what you find.

__________________
1984 280SEL, 62,000 miles
Euro model in the USA
1983 300D (Totaled out 10/2004)
New Factory Mint Green paint
Palomino int
1982 240D (Steak dinner for two)

The starter was working perfect. I only had the car about 4 months. In the middle of summer, I made a stop and shut the car off for about 30 minutes. Came back no start. The starter was dead, and my son came and towed me to a start. Got it home, still dead. With a little research, I found that terminal block on the passenger side inner fender where I could jump the starter. That worked perfectly. So I thought, it must be the ignition switch. Well, I had just got my old parts car and I pulled the switch from it and put it in the 85. Same problem. Everything works except it won't crank from the key. I solved the whole problem by putting a small push button starter right next to the switch and have been using it ever since. I think it is easier then using the Mercedes switch as it is designed. Occasionally I check the start position on the key, but I have never found it working. I think a wire broke or a connector broke in the wiring harness, but that is just a guess.

__________________
Junqueyardjim
Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. C.S. Lewis



1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA

2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage,
Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it!