Honda diesel patent and import for 2008 or 2009? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

TwitchKitty · #1 09-09-2006, 09:57 PM

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000101&sid=aGUDxfTgbHY4&refer=j

Quote:

Honda introduced its first diesel engine, a 2.2-liter, four-cylinder model, in Europe two years ago.

For the four- and six-cylinder clean diesels it plans for the U.S., Honda first sends exhaust through a plasma reactor, or a gaseous layer of electrically charged atoms, according to a U.S. Patent and Trademark Office Web site. That isolates harmful nitrous oxide and forms nitrogen dioxide, which is reduced or absorbed by alkali metals and silver.

GM has tested plasma reactors and hasn't concluded they're the best for cutting nitrous oxide, Stephens says.

DaimlerChrysler AG prefers to squirt urea, or liquefied ammonia, into the exhaust. The Stuttgart, Germany-based automaker plans such a system on its Mercedes-Benz E-Class sedan in a few years, says Simon Godwin, manager of regulatory affairs in Washington. A urea tank and controls may cost as much as a gas-electric hybrid system, or $2,000, says George Peterson, president of consulting firm AutoPacific Inc. in Tustin, California. Drivers must refill the tank as often as they change their oil, Godwin says.

`Tour de Force'

Fukui says his catalyzer is simpler and will make Honda the first company to meet 2009 emission standards.

``If they can get it out there, it's an engineering tour de force,'' says Robert Weber, who analyzes exhaust systems at TIAX LLC, a Cambridge, Massachusetts-based consulting firm.

#2 09-09-2006, 10:10 PM

I think the urea system/AdBlue is cheating. There has to be better ways of removing NOx.

Honda seems to be doing well in Europe. We'll see how it goes here. Cross your fingers!

300SD81 · #3 09-09-2006, 11:28 PM

Quote:

DaimlerChrysler AG prefers to squirt urea, or liquefied ammonia, into the exhaust. The Stuttgart, Germany-based automaker plans such a system on its Mercedes-Benz E-Class sedan in a few years, says Simon Godwin, manager of regulatory affairs in Washington. A urea tank and controls may cost as much as a gas-electric hybrid system, or $2,000, says George Peterson, president of consulting firm AutoPacific Inc. in Tustin, California. Drivers must refill the tank as often as they change their oil, Godwin says.

I'd love to see someone confuse 'urea' and 'urine' and decide to take a piss in the tank

#4 09-09-2006, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 300SD81

I'd love to see someone confuse 'urea' and 'urine' and decide to take a piss in the tank

FYI:

urea |yo??r??|

noun Biochemistry

a colorless crystalline compound that is the main nitrogenous breakdown product of protein metabolism in mammals and is excreted in urine. • Chem. formula: CO(NH 2) 2.

ORIGIN early 19th cent.: modern Latin, from French urée, from Greek ouron ‘urine.’

#5 09-10-2006, 03:47 AM

From wiki:
Urea is an organic compound of carbon, nitrogen, oxygen and hydrogen, with the formula CON2H4 or (NH2)2CO.

...

Urea is produced commercially from synthetic ammonia and carbon dioxide. Urea can be produced as prills, granules, flakes, pellets, crystals and solutions.

More than 90% of world production is destined for use as a fertilizer. Urea has the highest nitrogen content of all solid nitrogeneous fertilizers in common use. (46.4%N.) It therefore has the lowest transportation costs per unit of nitrogen nutrient.

Urea is highly soluble in water and is therefore also very suitable for use in fertilizer solutions (in combination with ammonium nitrate: UAN), e.g. in “foliar feed’ fertilizers.

Solid urea is marketed as prills or granules. The advantage of prills is that in general they can be produced more cheaply than granules which, because of their narrower particle size distribution have an advantage over prills if applied mechanically to the soil. Properties such as impact strength, crushing strength and free-flowing behaviour are particularly important in product handling, storage and bulk transportation.

Production Urea is produced commercially from two raw materials, ammonia and carbon dioxide. Large quantities of carbon dioxide are produced during the manufacture of ammonia from coal or from hydrocarbons such as natural gas and petroleum derived raw materials. This allows direct synthesis of urea from these raw materials.

The production of urea from ammonia and carbon dioxide takes place in an equilibrium reaction, with incomplete conversion of the reactants. The various urea processes are characterized by the conditions under which urea formation takes place and the way in which unconverted reactants are further processed.

Unconverted reactants can be used for the manufacture of other products, for example ammonium nitrate or sulphate, or they can be recycled for complete conversion to urea in a total-recycle process.

Two principal reactions take place in the formation of urea from ammonia and carbon dioxide. The first reaction (2NH3 + CO2 --> H2N-CO-NH3OH (ammonium carbamate)) is exothermic and the second reaction (H2N-CO-NH3OH (ammonium carbamate) --> H2N-CO-NH2 + H2O) is endothermic. Both reactions combined are exothermic.

Ken300D · #6 09-10-2006, 09:20 AM

I sure hope that's a stainless steel exhaust system that they're squirting urea into, otherwise their consumers are going to be replacing exhausts often.

Ken300D

jshadows · #7 09-10-2006, 11:29 AM

I couldn't find anything assigned to Honda on the PTO site, but this appears to be GM/Delphi's version

in fact they have a few for gassers and diesels.

Diesel Fan · #8 09-10-2006, 02:04 PM

I simply want to know when I can order a turbodiesel Accord. I'm ready to trade now!

nhdoc · #9 09-10-2006, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel Fan

I simply want to know when I can order a turbodiesel Accord. I'm ready to trade now!

I'd say if the Japanese do get around to solving the diesel emmissions issues for US EPA then MB & VW should watch out. Right now MB & VW are the only game in town but both lines have such poor reputations for build quality that if Honda or Toyota came in with one it would wipe the floor with the euro competition. The two finest cars I ever owned for quality were a Toyota Avalon ('98) and Honda Prelude ('85). I would not hesitate for one second to buy a new diesel Honda or Toyota if one became available here but would NEVER buy a new CDI or TDI.

PanzerSD · #10 09-10-2006, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhdoc

MB & VW are the only game in town but both lines have such poor reputations for build quality that if Honda or Toyota came in with one it would wipe the floor with the euro competition.

Hmm... and this from a guy who owns FIVE benzes!

#11 09-11-2006, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhdoc

I would not hesitate for one second to buy a new diesel Honda or Toyota if one became available here but would NEVER buy a new CDI or TDI.

I have a simpler rule, never buy anything that's new enough to have a "check engine" light.

vstech · #12 09-11-2006, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I have a simpler rule, never buy anything that's new enough to have a "check engine" light.

Absolutly

Diescipel · #13 09-11-2006, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhdoc

I'd say if the Japanese do get around to solving the diesel emmissions issues for US EPA then MB & VW should watch out. Right now MB & VW are the only game in town but both lines have such poor reputations for build quality that if Honda or Toyota came in with one it would wipe the floor with the euro competition. The two finest cars I ever owned for quality were a Toyota Avalon ('98) and Honda Prelude ('85). I would not hesitate for one second to buy a new diesel Honda or Toyota if one became available here but would NEVER buy a new CDI or TDI.

Yes, Toyota already produces phenomenal diesels for the rest of the world. Just ask soccers moms in Australia or talk to ranchers in Nicaragua. The problem is getting them to pass the emissions standards in California and for the EPA. In terms of long-lasting, smooth, quiet, and reliable diesel power, Toyota has proven themselves in 3rd World conditions for decades.

My BJ42 Landcruiser has build quality easily comparable to my 240D, just not as cushy. However, it has its own virtues...

I can't imagine the Japanese NOT solving the emissions issues. They have solved every other problem haven't they? And I agree the urea method is a band-aid, short-sighted approach. How wants to piss in their Benz at every oil change?

B

Gurkha · #14 09-11-2006, 01:14 AM

I agree the HINO build Toyota diesel engines are simply bulletproof, the smaller Daihatsu build ones are good too but just not in HINO class.

TwitchKitty · #15 09-11-2006, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurkha

I agree the HINO build Toyota diesel engines are simply bulletproof, the smaller Daihatsu build ones are good too but just not in HINO class.

This is something I haven't considered. With globalization being what it is, if and when Honda sells diesels here we will have to wait to see who actually builds them.