Mercedes BLUETEC Technology - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #16 01-22-2006, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greasybenz

If that full size suv makes it here bye bye pos expedition and hello CDI bluetec

Not necessarily. Ford is everywhere. MB is pricy and has dealerships only in certain areas. If I was 100 miles from an MB facility, why would I buy one? There are 6 MB dealers in WI. What will you do when you need a fix? Tow it to them and at what cost. In Madison or Chicago, I would. However, if I had to drive a long way to an MB facility, I wouldn't buy any MB. Also Blutec is good when there is fuel nearby. If I had to do it again today, I would have gotten the E class gas. I can get gas anywhere. Diesel varies from 30 cents between cheapest and most expensive and is not readily advailable. The cost of premium is cheaper than diesel so for all that, what is the gain? 25% economy and all that hassle? No thanx. Gas prices vary by 5 cents. Diesel by 30. I have to drive 20 miles to get the cheapest diesel and there are only5 pumps on the east side of Madison vs 30+ gas stations. Sooooo, if you want to replace my Expidition with your CDI Bluetec, you are going to have to entice me greatly. Expand the network of dealerships, have the gas stations dig one more tank for diesel and make the price comparative (104K???

I can buy two Expiditons for that money). However, if emmissions and diesel fuel use is your one and only concern, money is no object, maybe. Vehicle for vehicle, I still think the gasoline Expedition or Suburban has your Blutec beat all to hell. One last thing. Ascessories. Who has more ascessories? Any MB SUV or any Ford or GM SUV? I towed a boat on an M class and it SUCKED. Yes, it was under the rated towing capacity so it should have done it right away. Handling and power seemed to go down the toilet once the boat was on. I had to take over with a Suburban.

DieselAddict · #17 01-22-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

It's sad that the engine makers are focusing on exhaust after treatment insted of taking care of it where it starts: The ENGINE! Four Cats/Filters in the exhaust of the V6 CDI. It's all just a band-aid....These health nazis can't see the reality of physics. They want all internal combustion engines to have zero emissions. It can't happen. Sooner or later the auto makers are going to hit a huge brick wall and realize that they can't do anything else to reduce emissions.

Obviously you haven't read much on this topic. The manufacturers are not just focusing on after treatment. What do you think common rail injection is for? It's not just for reducing noise, but also reducing emissions by atomizing the fuel as much as possible. The Honda CTDi is probably going to be even cleaner and if you've seen the video about it you know it has a pretty amazing intake design that swirls the incoming air in a really effective way to maximize the distribution of the atomized fuel. Personally I think it's exciting how clean internal combustion engines can be made and if you look at the last 3 decades you can see how much difference it's made in the quality of the air that we breathe. I just hope that MB and others get it right and we won't have another trap oxidizer fiasco like we did in the mid 80's.

imdavid28 · #18 01-22-2006, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

These health nazis can't see the reality of physics. They want all internal combustion engines to have zero emissions. It can't happen.

Zero emmisions is not a goal, more like an ideal. Nothing wrong with trying to better your product, right?

HCCI Engines are doing pretty damn good on the emmisions. But they are still a little bit off in the future.

I think that the Emmisions Nazis are there for a good reason. If they weren't there, it would be like the early 20th century when everything was covered in soot from the coal plants.

I would like to see a catalyst sticking out of the rear of a cow though. Sounds like a good drunk story in the making...

AlexTheSeal · #19 01-22-2006, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon

-starts selling organs for a diesel 300C or SL 400 CDI Biturbo-

I'd like to see diesels in the Dakota, and the new Challenger.

(Not so farfetched! Muscle cars are all about torque... and we all know that's what diesels are good for...)

#20 01-22-2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

...it has a pretty amazing intake design that swirls the incoming air in a really effective way to maximize the distribution of the atomized fuel.

I know engineers have taken HUGE steps in engine technology since the 80's. But just the fact of having 3 cats and a filter in the exhaust shows that they are not up to par for what they *should* be at. BTW, Isuzu NPR engines have had "variable intake swirl" valves since the late 90's. I personaly don't like Honda's approach to the diesel engine but it is a step away from the "gas good, diesel bad" mindset that americans have had since the late 80's. Anything that does that is OK in my book.

AlexTheSeal · #21 01-22-2006, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

I personaly don't like Honda's approach to the diesel engine

Interesting. I don't know much about Honda diesels, other than that they are popular in the UK, judging by what British car magazines say about them... what don't you like about them?

#22 01-22-2006, 06:40 PM

Well, a few things.

1: The designer is the same guy that built the VTEC engine. Honda said directly and clearly on their website in their early "Hate" ad that he "HATES" Diesels. Not a good start to life. SEE HERE. Click on "Hate something- The hero"

2: Off-set crankshaft. Again, their early website said "much of the diesel knock is noise from piston slap on the cylinder walls." As a result, they designed the engine with a crankshaft that is not in-line with the piston to fix this "problem".

3: They use very soft engine mounts and a pendulum design to dampen idle vibrations.

4: Internal cooled EGR. Nuff said.

5: All aluminium engine. I know, I know. The iron block is going the way of the carburetor.

Yes, they are little piddley things but I'm pretty pickey when it comes to diesel engine features.

:edit: 6: ...and the internet ads just look really, really gay.

Hatterasguy · #23 01-22-2006, 06:48 PM

I don't see the problem, when the cats fail bypass them. When emissions testing comes along add veg oil to tank, and pass with flying colors!

Besides when they are under warranty who cares if the cats blow its MB's problem.

aklim · #24 01-22-2006, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I don't see the problem, when the cats fail bypass them. When emissions testing comes along add veg oil to tank, and pass with flying colors!

Besides when they are under warranty who cares if the cats blow its MB's problem.

Warranty only goes so far then you have to get it fixed yourself. Warranties usually guarantee the product doesn't fail till your warranty is over.

#25 01-22-2006, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

when the cats fail bypass them

I would bet you money it's not that simple anymore. With computer controlled urea injection, anything is possible. If the ECM is tied into the cat's, it might not be as simple as installing a "test pipe" or hollowing them out with a bar. What will the ECM do when the tank runs dry or a cat is removed? Will it throw a CEL? Will it go into limp mode to reduce emissions?

It's not like a 300D 2.5L anymore. The ECM can do MUCH more than just cut boost. At least with the 2.5 you can swap the wastegate from vacuum and take the ECM out of the loop. Beyond the operator filling the fuel tank, the ECM controls EVERYTHING about the engine. The engine is just following suggestions from the driver input. If it does not want to "go", it won't.

This is a whole new generation of engines coming into play. Beyond the diesel fuel we all know and love, we can pretty much throw out most of what we have learned from the OM61x.9xx series engines. The future is here. All we can do is hold on closely to our W123/W115/W116'/W126's and keep them alive!

Hatterasguy · #26 01-22-2006, 07:16 PM

Solution trade in car before 4 year or 50k mile warranty expires.

aklim · #27 01-22-2006, 09:16 PM

AFAIK, we don't have too many choices for MB tuners. In my GM, they have 4 02 sensors. 2 pre and 2 post. The post measure the effectiveness of the cats while the pre measures the effectiveness of the cats. So, if you have no cats, you will throw a check engine light. It might also do other things in this new car so we don't really know what will happen. Therefore, until we have people that can remove the error code and thus not trip the SES, we cannot just bypass the cats.

#28 01-22-2006, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

AFAIK, we don't have too many choices for MB tuners. In my GM, they have 4 02 sensors. 2 pre and 2 post. The post measure the effectiveness of the cats while the pre measures the effectiveness of the cats. So, if you have no cats, you will throw a check engine light. It might also do other things in this new car so we don't really know what will happen. Therefore, until we have people that can remove the error code and thus not trip the SES, we cannot just bypass the cats.

There are a few performance parts sellers like Jegs that sell plugs for the rear O2 sensors to fool them.HERE

aklim · #29 01-22-2006, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

There are a few performance parts sellers like Jegs that sell plugs for the rear O2 sensors to fool them.HERE

Whether it fools the MB sensors remains to be seen. Do diesels even use O2 sensors?

Diesel Giant · #30 01-22-2006, 10:19 PM

Well bluetech or not, I dont think the average American is ready to give up their cancer causing gas burning Exploders.

I hate gasoline so much I want to puke.