Future diesel models - response from MB - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cornblatt · #1 10-21-2005, 12:17 PM

It seems strange to discuss new cars on this forum, but I'll give it a try anyway...

I recently contacted Mercedes regarding their plans for future diesel models to be sold here (here = Canada, but the answer for the US is probably similar). The reply was discouraging...

I said:

Quote:

Hi! I would like to know if you have any plans to offer a diesel engine +
manual transmission in the C-class.

I currently have a 5-speed 190 Diesel. It is a very sensible car that is
reliable and gets good fuel mileage. But, it is getting old (22 yrs), and
I may need to buy a new car in the next couple of years.

I would like another Mercedes, but unfortunately there is nothing in the
current Canadian Mercedes product lineup that is comparable to this car.
Since the european market has many diesel engine options, I was wondering
if you had any plans to make those options available in Canada. I know you
offer the E-class CDI, but that car is too large for me.

Thank you in advance for taking the time to answer my question!

And their response was:

Quote:

Thank you for your interest in Mercedes-Benz.

Please note the only available diesel engines at this time are the
Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI and the smart fortwo CDI. In the future,
Mercedes-Benz AG will introduce more diesel engines to the Canadian
marketplace. We are currently evaluating a diesel version M-Class and the
newly launched R-Class, possibly for 2007, however we have no further
information at this time. Please note there are no current plans to
introduce a diesel version C-Class, however I would be more than happy to
forward your feedback to our Product Management Team for consideration in
the development of upcoming models.

As new models become available in Canada, they will be posted on our
website.

I also contacted Audi, since I think that the new A3 looks interesting, and the A4 is a fantastic car with the most incredible interior I've ever seen in a vehicle. The textures, fit and finish, and 'atmosphere' of being in the car are all perfect. Reliability may be another story... but they're probably no different than MB in that respect. Anyway, Audi's reply was even more discouraging:

Quote:

Thank you for contacting Audi of America.

With the current concerns over fuel prices, diesel is a natural answer and we do have advanced diesel technologies in Europe today. The reality, though, is that it will take some time and development yet, and some changes in the North American diesel fuel, before you will see a diesel powered Audi in North America. We are working on gasoline alternatives but the best thing we can say at this point is "Watch for news!" When new models are launched we will announce them through press releases and our website.

Again, thank you for writing and for your interest.

While I appreciate their honest answers, it wasn't what I wanted to hear! I guess this is an incentive to hang on to your existing diesel car as long as you can, because nothing new is coming any time soon...

#2 10-21-2005, 12:40 PM

Unfortunately, I don't think it is in MBs interest to put diesels in low end cars yet. In the US market they seem to introduce new technology at the high end and let it trickle down slowly. I don't think they are very interested in competing with VW TDIs in this market. I would guess that it will be quite a few years before we see small/cheap MB diesels on this side of the atlantic. Just my opinion.

bbeardb · #3 10-21-2005, 12:44 PM

Toyota kinda says the same thing. I think all manufactures (except VW) think selling diesel in the US is a bust. Such a bummer...

diametricalbenz · #4 10-21-2005, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbeardb

Toyota kinda says the same thing. I think all manufactures (except VW) think selling diesel in the US is a bust. Such a bummer...

Actually from an inside source at VW they plan to exit the diesel market by 2007 because of emissions stringency the only leverage is mass production use of biodiesel teamed with a catlytic converter which is still overcoming design issues.

Hopefully with higher fuel prices more interest will be placed on clean burning high mileage cars.

whunter · #5 10-21-2005, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diametricalbenz

Hopefully with higher fuel prices more interest will be placed on clean burning high mileage cars.

Your next car will be a Microsoft programed plastic V16 GAS HOG, if the auto makers have their way.

#6 10-21-2005, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

Your next car will be a Microsoft programed plastic V16 GAS HOG, if the auto makers have their way.

I'm just hoping my 123s outlive me so I don't have to deal with it.

Martin · #7 10-21-2005, 01:51 PM

Unfortunately, I don't think it is in MBs interest to put diesels in low end cars yet.

Not entirely true. MB has diesels in their entire lineup in Europe with the exception of the SL's (K's, R's, etc). The US market is not ready to accept diesels because of a preconceived notion of diesels being dirty and noisy. The majority of the US public is completely oblivious to the fact that most present day production car diesels (MB, Audi, BMW, VW, etc) outperform their gasoline brethren in HP, torque, and fuel economy. They are quiet and actually quite clean. The US market needs to re-evaluate their diesel blends to become more in line with those produced in Europe.

boneheaddoctor · #8 10-21-2005, 01:53 PM

Mercedes sells diesels in all their low end cars.....In Europe...

They just don't wish to sell affordible cars with diesels here....

DR.DIESEL · #9 10-21-2005, 02:01 PM

Hi,
Our new E320 CDI is doing really well right now on the current US poor quality Diesel fuel. It uses a catalist and 02 sensor to run cleanly. When the US has the new High grade diesel fuel for 2007 we might see the new tri-turbo V-6
diesel come over from Europe. This engine will not run well on current US available fuel. However, it can be fitted into darn near every current MB vehicle model, and with Urea injection it should pass emmissions in all 50 states. Time will only tell. The US has to get the diesel cleaned up first.
The first possible car to get it would be the new M/R/GL chassis.
MB wants to bring diesels back, but if there is no way to pass emmssions or
if no one will buy them, what would be the point?
Dr.D

#10 10-21-2005, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Mercedes sells diesels in all their low end cars.....In Europe...

They just don't wish to sell affordible cars with diesels here....

I agree completely, I was referring to their marketing strategy in the US only. They have no interest in selling "economy cars" in this market. They are probably correct (from a business point of view) because they are not likely to be competitive, the profit margin on low end cars is much lower, it could cut into their E-series sales, and it would hurt their image in the US.

diametricalbenz · #11 10-21-2005, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

Your next car will be a Microsoft programed plastic V16 GAS HOG, if the auto makers have their way.

Nope, they're not convincing me. I have a gas hog but I drive that once maybe twice a month.

Watching Bill Ford's ad inbetween TV programming last night sounded the most promising for US automakers displaying a Escape Hybrid and promising technological innovation. Then there's DCX and GM cranking out Jeep Commander and silly artsy Hummer ads.

Around here having an SUV just seems to give people the license to drive like a-holes and it endangers everyone....sad part is that they think it's funny when they near kill you.

airbus · #12 10-21-2005, 02:03 PM

This whole thing with diesels in the US is some government BS. Ever since GM ruined the diesel market in the US in the mid 80s by trying to convert a gasser into a diesel, the government is trying everything to keep diesels off the streets. Why? Because the american autoindustry is still unable to build diesel engines for passenger cars (after 20years!). Mercedes diesels are sold in any class (A. B. C, E, S, etc.) in a range from 1.6litre to 3.2litre everywhere around the world except the US. In NY state they're going one step further: it is illegal (impossible) here to register a brandnew diesel powered passenger car. All the foreign automakers have the technology to build reliable, silent, fuel-economic diesel engines at reasonable prices, but the US government won't let them bring them over here, they rather destroy the environment with their gasoline eating cars just to keep the GM and Ford and Mobil manager's pockets filled. I swear I will never buy an american car and probably never again a gasser of any brand.

boneheaddoctor · #13 10-21-2005, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airbus

This whole thing with diesels in the US is some government BS. Ever since GM ruined the diesel market in the US in the mid 80s by trying to convert a gasser into a diesel, the government is trying everything to keep diesels off the streets. Why? Because the american autoindustry is still unable to build diesel engines for passenger cars (after 20years!). Mercedes diesels are sold in any class (A. B. C, E, S, etc.) in a range from 1.6litre to 3.2litre everywhere around the world except the US. In NY state they're going one step further: it is illegal (impossible) here to register a brandnew diesel powered passenger car. All the foreign automakers have the technology to build reliable, silent, fuel-economic diesel engines at reasonable prices, but the US government won't let them bring them over here, they rather destroy the environment with their gasoline eating cars just to keep the GM and Ford and Mobil manager's pockets filled. I swear I will never buy an american car and probably never again a gasser of any brand.

GM never converted any gasser to a diesel....thats pure horse manure...

Take a look at the diesels in the ford escorts...that did little to help things either...

airbus · #14 10-21-2005, 02:19 PM

Well, I don't know exactly what they did but I do know that they tryed to build a diesel engine for passenger cars some 20 years ago. In the mid 90s they still weren't done so Opel/Vauxhall, a GM company had to buy diesel engines from BMW (not the best choice either...) to put in their cars.

rurik · #15 10-21-2005, 02:21 PM

I don't think you'll see any more diesel cars in US until the ultra-low sufur fuel standard goes in effect next summer. It's simply too hard to build an efficient catalytic converter that can tolerate high-sulfur fuel. That said, it's just a matter of time before more diesel cars are sold in US. Fuel economy used to be a non-issue in US, but that's changing. Diesel engines used to put out too much NOx to pass CA and NY emissions tests, but that's changing too.

It's really cool that someone actually sends requests to manufacturers asking for these things. I work for a large corporation myself, and in my experience direct customer input like this is surprisingly effective. One would think that a company like MB already pumps lots of money into market research, and knows all there's to know, and a few customers asking for things would have zero impact. The reality is often more complicated. I personally believe that most "market research" is total BS, the results that marketing people come up with are simply what their boss wanted to see, for whatever internal political reasons. This is how you get things like GM saying "Americans don't want fuel-efficient cars, we have done market research so we know". Then of course Toyota proves them to be total idiots. So direct requests sent to sales offices (this is a different branch of company than marketing, which is important) do tend to have appreciable impact.

Unfortunately, no sales rep from any half-way-big company would tell you anything specific about upcoming product releases. The corporate mentality is to keep those things as secret as possible; you'd have to sign an NDA to find out anything at all about future plans.