This question has set me to thinking.... "what will all of us old time diesel lovers graduate to?" Or will we stay with the classic car forever? Having recently purchased a TDI, I offer the following comparisons and welcome yours:

1. Reliability - so far I like the MB because its virtually all mechanical
2. Performance - TDI
3. Longevity - Although some intial TDI's have turned 300k, I still sticking with the MB
4. Economy - TDI if I can learn to do the timing belt myself, otherwise it might be a toss up
5. Instrument Cluster Lights -
6. Indestructible - MB
7. Safety - MB
8. Alternative Fuels - MB
9. Tank Feel - MB
10. Seats - TDI

I'm still 80% MB for my daily drivers (4:1). Don't worry, I haven't cash all my chips in yet.

Don

__________________
DAILY DRIVERS:
'84 300DT 298k (Aubrey's)
'99.5 Jetta TDI IV 251k (Julie's)
'97 Jetta TDI 127k (Amber's)
'97 Jetta TDI 186k (Matt's)
'96 Passat TDI 237k (Don's
'84 300D 211k Mint (Arne- Undergoing Greasecar Conversion)

SOLD:
'82 240D 229k (Matt's - Converted-300DT w/ 4 speed

Probably not, CDI or gas is next for me.

VW makes a nice diesel car though you never know. Although I wasn't to impressed with the 1.8T I drove, sure it was a nice new Jetta. Brakes and handling were good to, and the ride was decent also. But I kept thinking wow this thing cost about $20k I can get a 500E, S420, XJ8/R, 330, 740iL.. ect. I would buy a used one but not one that was newer then say 5 years old.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

That TDI thing has a LOT of computers (more than 0) in it- thats gonna break the deal for some.
Perhaps as more TDI's populate the roads, and as more IDI MB's escalate in cost (no!) then more people, who arent as "die hard" as some, will just "give in" and get a TDI.
I'm not sure what I'd do if my 240D and a jetta TDI were comparable in price, perhaps in 5 to 10 years they will be...

I think price (on ebay, on autotrader.com, parts prices on fastlane...) will make that call.

-John

__________________
2009 Kia Sedona
2009 Honda Odyssey EX-L
12006 Jetta Pumpe Duse
(insert Mercedes here)

Husband, Father, sometimes friend =)

It's possible that I will graduate to a TDI one day, but even if I do I'm sure I'll keep at least one old MB diesel. The TDI's have interested me for the last couple years because of their economy and how smooth, quiet and clean they run. But I find the styling of the old MB's a lot more appealing than any of the VW's. VW's look like what they were intended to be: economy cars. For the price of a new TDI you sure can pick up a really nice used Benz.

__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

For no particular reason, I am not much of a VW person. They are nice little cars, but don't really do it for me. The only thing that would push me over the edge would be the incredible fuel economy those TDIs get. Even then, it's hard to compare one to what I'm driving now. I'll admit that some of it is that I'm smitten by the MB tradition ... our cars just ooze class (and yes, I know, some of our cars ooze other things too).

I can't say I have the mechanical expertise to appropriately pass judgment on a TDI, and my experience with them is somewhat limited. My sister has one, though, and I have driven it and heard much about her experiences with it. She's a smart woman, but her automechanical knowledge is even more limited than mine. She is quite fond of her car, but her two reasons for it are 1)visability and 2)fuel economy. Like I said, fuel economy, I can see being pulled in by. Visability, I don't really understand ... she's obsessed with visability, whereas I place it lower down on my list of "musts" (I drove a solid-backed van for a couple years).
My problems with her TDI: always seems to have electrical problems. I deal with enough computer shutdowns and crashes at work; I don't need them in my car.
Also, I have to disagree with the performance angle. Maybe may taste is unrefined when it comes to vehicular performance, but while my sis's 2002 TDI handles nicely and is a lively little bugger, it does not come close, IMO, to what I get from my OM603.

And for comfort and "luxury," the MBs are, well, "unlike any other."

In my perhaps delusion world, I will stick to my old MBs, even if I have to have 15 beaters parked out back. I don't consider it entirely unfeasable to rely on older MBs for the next 15 years. After that, who's really to say what advances (or regressions!) will take place with cars?

I'm also not entirely against getting in a CDI, and if they ever made a diesel G for the U.S. market, I'd stop purchasing food in order to save up my money and buy the gelaendewagen!

__________________
1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)

LOL - "That TDI thing has a LOT of computers (more than 0) in it"

I agree. That stuff scares me to death. It sure is alot easier to remove a greasy part and replace it with a shiny one.

What got me on the TDI was when I spreadsheeted it out. The stinkin thing paid for itself (against a MB) in three years.

Don

__________________
DAILY DRIVERS:
'84 300DT 298k (Aubrey's)
'99.5 Jetta TDI IV 251k (Julie's)
'97 Jetta TDI 127k (Amber's)
'97 Jetta TDI 186k (Matt's)
'96 Passat TDI 237k (Don's
'84 300D 211k Mint (Arne- Undergoing Greasecar Conversion)

SOLD:
'82 240D 229k (Matt's - Converted-300DT w/ 4 speed

Been there, done that, went back to Mercedes.

TDIs are fun though, it would be nice to have one of each, and maybe a Cummins too.

Mercedes-Benz > Volkswagen

I test drove a new jetta tdi several years ago. I was impressed by the motor but not the rest of the vehicle. Didn't handle all that well and felt tinny. That said, the mpg is great on a TDI. I will probably buy one eventually, but not until the prices come down a bit on the used ones.

What do you mean by "graduate". By your use of if it gives the impression that VW's are inherently superior. It smacks of the the smugness I have come to expect from VW owners. Ask the question in 10 years when VW's support of older models evaporates and there is no source for new parts...

__________________
Bill Reimels
Now down to one:
1972 300SE 3.5 W109 (Euro delivery)

Um, does the M-B have to die to 'graduate' to TDI?

I guess mine will likely die the Death of a Thousand Rusts, since it is still running despite all of my tinkering...

Being in the cold, just too hard to watch my 300TD battle the Canadian winter. So my TDI runs from Nov to March, but when the snow melts....the 300TD is the one for me. Down south I would run my Benz 24/7.

Both are wonderful cars in their own right. The style, class, and heritage of the MB is really something to appreciate. However, the VW offers its own style in a "european economy" sort of way. Small diesel cars seem to populate the cities in Germany and the only one available, new, in the US is from VW. Besides, the only thing that comes close to the TDI fuel economy is the Prius. Batteries anyone?

By overall design, the diesel MB W123 and W126 are some of the best cars ever produced, by anyone. . .period. It is pretty hard to better das besten.

__________________
1983 300SD - OLLIE
1985 300D-HILDA (SOLD)
2002 VW Jetta TDI - Puddles
____________________
Diesel passt mir leid!

I'd like to own a TDI at some point, they are nice little cars. If my commute was longer and I got paid more the fuel efficiency would be very attractive.

If money were no object and I had a lot of towing to do the V10 TDI tuareg would be looking mighty appealing.

However, I'm happy with my MB, I've got no other needs right now.

And for those of you who are afraid of computers... Stop being old codgers! When a computer doubles your fuel mileage, you say 'thank you'. In some ways computers make cars easier to deal with, and in other ways it makes them more complex. But its the way of things, because to improve automobiles beyond the point they are now the engines need a level of 'intelligence' to keep track of themselves. You might as well embrace it.

peace,
sam

__________________
"That f***in' biodiesel is makin' me hungry."

1982 300TD Astral Silver w/ 250k (BIO BNZ)
2001 Aprilia SR50 Corsa Red w/ 5.5k (>100 MPG)

Ahh, another apples and oranges comparison.... The reality of it is that in 10 years the supply of cheap 123/126 MB's will have dried up completely. The ones that are still around will be nice and won't be driven in nasty weather. The supply of nice 124's should be drying up or gone too. So where does that leave us? The 210's? The used CDI's? They have computers too. If you are smart you will learn to embrace the computers in the TDI's. They really aren't all that difficult to work with if you get the software to decipher them. If you plan on staying with diesels what choice will you have? Use the TDI's for what they are, great commuters, mass-produced so that when they rust away from road salt they have given their all to let a pristine garaged MB live indefinitely. Parts and support for VW is no problem with the aftermarket. If you think it is you haven't looked. Biodiesel and WVO have been run successfully in TDI's so wheres the issue? Imagine getting 45mpg instead of 25mpg on FREE fuel. RT

__________________
When all else fails, vote from the rooftops!
84' Mercedes Benz 300D Anthracite/black, 171K
03' Volkswagen Jetta TDI blue/black, 93K
93' Chevrolet C2500HD ExCab 6.5TD, Two-tone blue, 252K

I plan on never graduating.....I like my Grade ie 617.9/ 123 Chassis, thanks for asking though.

Regards Tom