W140 v. W202 v. late W124? Which one is better? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

suginami · #16 04-02-2003, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sflori
After the '95 model. 'Course that brings up the whole "V-6 vs straight 6" debate.

Actually, the C280's got the V6 in 1998.

I agree with the others that are recommending a C230. They are still fairly new, and low mileage examples shouldn't be that hard to find.

I believe the later W124's are better cars, but the 1993 - 1995 300E / E320's will all have engine wiring harnesses that need to be replaced, as well as head gaskets that will leak oil and need the updated head gasket.

There was a thread several months ago that asked the question what was the most reliable benz ever?

Gillybenztech posted that in his opinion the 1998 and earlier C230's were the most reliable and cheap to operate car that Mercedes ever made.

suginami · #17 04-02-2003, 10:49 PM

After reading my thread, some of my thoughts aren't obvious:

The 1999 and later C230 had the Kompressor, and there have been some engine management issues with that car, as well as long term reliability issues with the supercharger.

1994-1997 C280's have the M104 straight six, but might be avoided because they will all at some point leak oil from the head gasket and need replacement. The updated headgaskets don't leak, but the repair is a $1,500 job. Also, 1994 and 1995 C280's will have the bad engine wiring harness, too, an $800 repair.

Last, the V6 from 1998- on in the C280 doesn't have engine leaks, but from 1998 to 2000 had problems with the harmonic balancer pulley that comes apart and can cause significant engine troubles.

Thus, I'd only consider a 1997-1998 C230.

DieselHead · #18 04-02-2003, 11:12 PM

That's great info. What's the power like on those non-supercharged 230's? Thanks.

Alex

suginami · #19 04-02-2003, 11:23 PM

The power is better than you'd think.

I'd ask John (JCE). He has a 1998 C230 and loves it.

JCE · #20 04-02-2003, 11:43 PM

I own and drive both a 1987 300E w124, and a 1998 C230. All the above comments are very appropriate, especially those of Blackmercedes and Suginami. I would add that I like the handling and braking better on the w124, although the C230 became a lot better with Koni sport shocks, 16" rims, and Yoko ES100 tires. It is still a little much on brake dive for my tastes, and the brakes are solid unvented disks, and don't feel as competent as the w124 brakes, but have never failed to stop when I wanted. I am thinking of ss lines on the C230 just to get a more firm pedal feel.

The interior feels more cramped on the C230 than it really is, but still the w124 feels like a limo by comparison, both in front and in back, especially with a baby seat in place. Both cars have MB Tex, which feels thicker and more substantial on the 300E. The C230 has the fold down rear seat, which really increases the utility of the car over the w124. But the C230 isn't as quiet as the w124, or as fast, either.

I am not sure if the C230 is going to have an AC that is less expensive to work on than the w124, since the LCD control panel is a very expensive item if it goes away. This will probably be offset by the more open engine compartment on the c230 relative to the late 300E.

However, I have no doubt that the C230 will be easier to work on. Also, the 35mpg hiway/24mpg town is hard to beat - the 300E once got 24 hiway as it's personal best! Interestingly, while the C230 is a lot shorter than my 1987 300E, it weighs in about 100+lbs more! The C230 isn't really a dog on acceleration, but think of an early 300E with a 100 lb passenger and 10% less horsepower. The go pedal spends a fair amount of time close to the floor on acceleration, but from 40-80mph is very adequate - even quick. Upsolute makes a chip that will give the C230 about 10-15% more ponies, which would make it relatively close to a late 80's 300E, I imagine.

In an accident, I would rather be in the 300E than in the C230, despite all the airbags on the C230. That may be more of a subjective impression on my part than reality. All told, I love the early 300E, which is a lot less weight and more open under the hood than the later w124s, and handles better. I like the C230 a lot, but it comes in second to my 87 for my purposes. It would be a lot more difficult choice for me comparing a 1995 E320 to a 1998 C230 or 280. Then it would come down to roominess vs utility, power vs fuel economy. They are both great cars, but as Gilly says, the C230 will probably be less to maintain, and with the above mods, will handle pretty decently while retaining a comfortable ride. My wife drives the C230 most, and wishes it were a c280 for the acceleration, but doesn't want to give up the cornering of the lighter 230 engine.

Robert W. Roe · #21 04-03-2003, 01:37 AM

I agree it's true that the earlier W124's are lighter and more "tossable" than the later versions. In the "featured cars" section there is some good reading about the 300E, 400E, and 500E, and I think there is a discussion of the weight gains in the W124 from 1986 through 1995.

Personally I love my 1991 300TE wagon. It's just about the right size for me. It's a bit tight in the cabin compared to the W126 I'm trying to sell right now, but then I'm a big guy. I don't fit in the new C-class comfortably at all.

Fuel mileage? I've seen over 25 mpg highway, but 22-23 is more typical. 17 mpg in mixed suburban driving, with a 4 mile trip to work. (Cold start, short trip, shut down is not conducive to ideal fuel economy. One 200 mile trip yields better mileage than 50 4 mile trips, but I digress.)

The diesel 124's are economy champs, but the ones I've driven feel pretty front heavy and lack the tossability of the earlier gas engines. Actually several people consider the 1992 the best year, for power, at least in the 500E.

If she wants room, have you considered a later W126? They are great cruisers, and as long as you avoid the 1990-1991 300SD and 350SDL it's hard to go wrong. There a ton of people who swear by the 560SEL, 300SDL, and I've really had good cheap running with my 1984 300SD, although it is showing signs of age...stuff like window seals, and seats, blower motors, AC etc made me want something newer.

There are a bunch of people who would put their kids in a W123 240D or 300D.

The key is finding a good, rust-free, and well-maintained car.

Hope this helps, Bob

Michael K · #22 04-03-2003, 11:00 AM

"What's the power like on those non-supercharged 230's?"

I’ve driven my C230 from 30,000 miles to almost 100,000 miles. Here’re my thoughts on the C230’s power…

It’s great!

To me, the whole set up is fantastically well balanced. The 1997 and 1998 C230 is basically the car I would design for myself.

To me, the key to happiness with this car is keeping the engine at the proper rpm. I use the transmission and “manually” shift between third, fourth, and fifth gears and just LOVE the power. However, my wife leaves the transmission in drive and thinks the car is SLOW (this is compared a STATION WAGON). The transmission is generally reluctant to downshift unless the driver tells it to. You either have to move the stick or really step on the accelerator. I view this as a positive feature, but my wife…

I use the C230 for work and am very happy with my cost per mile. (In fact, knock on wood, every day that I drive the car, I make a profit on my per diem versus actual cost). I travel fairly extensive highway miles, and often see 35 miles per gallon. However, typical “around town” mileage is 27ish.

All this being said, for your sister, I would strongly consider the C280 with the M112 motor. “Around town” mileage for a C280 will be almost the same as the C230’s. To me, the C230 does not seem well suited to the typical American driver who likes to leave the transmission to its own devices. I would drive the two back to back and see what you think.

Additionally, there are relatively few, relative to the C280, normally aspirated C230s out there for sale. I have not checked, but I would not anticipate a major cost difference between the two.

Best of luck.

DieselHead · #23 04-03-2003, 08:40 PM

I saw a trio of cars today: a 1998 C230 with 40,000 miles for $14,500, a 1995 E320 Wagon with 82K miles for $12,500, and a 1980 450SL with 64K miles for #13,500.

What should I consider to be the mileage limit for a used car? 50K? 60K? 90K? This would only be the second used car I've purchased, and the last one turned out to be a dud (1995 Volvo T-5R) so I want to be a little more cautious about this. Thanks.

Alex

Michael K · #24 04-03-2003, 09:55 PM

Howdy Alex,

To me, there are two questions to ask youself?

One, what role will the vehicle play? Around town charriot, cargo hauler, highway cruiser, weekend fun? (On a side note, the W202, especially with the fold down rear seats, definetly holds a "college load" of stuff).

Two, which has the best MB warrantee?

If I were you, I would figure out what you want and then shop for it. Take your time. It took me almost a year to find MY C230 and over a year to find the wagon.

Best,

DieselHead · #25 04-04-2003, 12:08 PM

Michael,
I'm hoping that this search doesn't take a year. That would be dreadful. None of the three cars come with any kind of warrenty, they were all from private sellers. I only got to drive around the wagon, which seemed like a great car, and would probably be my choice, but this isn't a car for me, and I'm not going to ask my parents because this is a surprise for my sister. The car will be used by a very careful high school student, probably straight through college as well. I don't really know what that means. First trips to the mall, then long trips to school, parking outside on the street, no car washes, and running on fumes until my parents send her another check. I guess I'm looking for something that can take abuse relatively well.

Alex

Michael K · #26 04-04-2003, 03:39 PM

Hey man. Totally cool of you to hook up your sister. She should be pretty surprised. I hope it works out for her (and you).

Anyway, to maximize your time, why don’t you call the MB dealerships in your area? Tell the used car department exactly what you want, your budget, and your timeline. Ask them if they want to do a deal. It’s a buyers’ market; why not take advantage of it?

The dealerships, in addition to having a larger choice of cars, will be able to offer the Starmark warranty.

My dealer advertises only the newer, higher end cars. I looked at the used car lot last night, though, and they must have thirty W202s and ten W124s ready to go.

DieselHead · #27 04-04-2003, 04:47 PM

Spock, you thought you saw this identical thread in another forum? I didn't start one anywhere else.

Thanks everyone for the help. I'll look around the next week or two and post on what I buy.

Alex

#28 04-05-2003, 12:38 AM

Hey Alex,

I'm 38. Is that too old to be your nephew or something??

You're doing a great thing by buying your sister this car. She should get a lot of use out of it and you and your family will know that she's driving a great, safe vehicle.

I, also, was fortunate to have my first car given to me-- an '83 Ford Escort at the age of twenty.

Quit laughing..... I did upgrade the stereo!!

RG5384 · #29 04-05-2003, 10:23 PM

although i can see the function of a wagon, i think a sedan would be much more "cool". I say this based soley on personal tastes. I see a wagon as more of a kid hauler and "mom mobile"
Ryan

Robert W. Roe · #30 04-06-2003, 04:24 AM

Dieselhead/Alex... you wanna buy my 84 SD for $2400 or so? It's silver with blue tex, 202K, good compression, needs a few things... [end spam here, sorry...]