I'm planning to install a Sanden 508 in another car (1969 280SE). Older tech, but someone on the Vintage discussion board said it was the one to get. Also fairly cheap.

Yeah, I was planning on removing the compressor and flushing it out on the bench. I let my mechanic do some work when I'm lazy, but seeing as he fouled it up in the first place I'll go ahead. I used to be an aviation mechanic, so I have a few tools..

My compressor has a sticker that says "Sankyo Electric". I looks like it may be older than Methusalah and still pumps and sounds ok.

There is one mounting bolt that is a real PITA to get to. The bolts were loose when I got the car.

That is all.

I've read the whole thread and although Larry Bible and I bump heads occasionally, I think he is giving you sound advice. I can only add a couple of things. I think you should find a shop that really understands A/C and you should turn it over to the shop and stay out of it or just do it yourself. When I had a full blown Indie, My rule was you work on it or we work on it, but we don't both work on it. I'm suspecting that your shop is not well read and up to speed on A/C. Just my opinion.

Peter

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Astroman,

I live in S. Texas where A/C's earn their keep. I have a 115 300D that I was talking to an AC parts man about converting to 134. Everyone tells me that I MUST change the compressor. This guy said that the York piston comp. I have is a very good comp and not to change it. He said that the reason that comps. fail after being converted is that no one changes the condensor and there in lies the rub, as they say in the classics.

Apparently the 134 system generates more heat than the system can handle and if the condensor is not changed to a mulit-tube cross flow type the system just over heats and the comp. goes. He recommend installing as large a condensor as I can get in front of the radiator, new hoses, a new expansion valve, and a new drier. He said to seal around the condensor so that all the air that goes through the radiator has to go through the condensor.

After all this I don't know that it might not be as cheap to clean out the old system and maintain it on r-12.

"Why is reverse conversion such a big job"
Because some of the fittings are hard to get to....
Because cleanliness is more important than Godliness in this case....
Because you are doing it in the summer and will be hot while you are doing it....

kip,

So, buying the largest condensor you can get, paying hundreds and the hassle of changing compressors. What will that cost?

Now how much is three pounds of R12? I'll let you do the math.

Most conversions end up as false economy. People spend hundreds of dollars to convert to save $50 or so on their refrigerant. I'm not a very smart guy and I learned my math in the fifties and sixties before the so called "new math" came along. But I fully believe that my calculations are correct.

Let's say you need a new York. You can get a quality rebuilt York for $100 exchange, r/d maybe $50, R12 $50 plus $15 for a 609 certificate if you don't have one. Now replacing the condensor alone and making the hoses for the job will cost more than that.

I love a York compressor system. The compressors are cheap and durable as long as you don't allow liquid to hit the reed valves while charging. Many of these systems have service valves rather than Shrader ports which adds all sorts of added features and possibilities when servicing.

Also your old 115 car, may very well have stratoflex lines that you can actually repair by unthreading them, cutting a little off the line and threading it back together.

The York is less efficient than newer units so it will soak up a few horsepower. So what, I doubt that you are using this vehicle for a race car.

In the seventies my wife had a 114 250 and I had 114 230 stick shift. Both of them had stratoflex lines and York compressors. As far as I'm concerned they were the best, most durable a/c systems I ever had in a car. Not only that, they almost made ice cubes.

If that car were mine, I would find my leak or bad component, flush it, replace r/d and do whatever it needed to put it back like it should be. When I was done I would be happy to know what a great system I had.

Good luck,

Kip,
It sounds like the A/C guy you talked to is on a profit sharing plan. Unless you have metal junk flowing around in the system from a previous compressor that grenaded, there is no reason a compressor should fail as long as you have a sufficient charge and the proper oil. R134 is not compatible with mineral oil used with R12 so you have to replace some or all of the oil. The oil of choice for a conversion is Ester oil, because it is tolerated by any mineral oil left in the system. You mentioned extra heat. The recommended 134 charge is 80% of R12, because R134 head pressures can be 20 to 100 lbs more than R12. Actually a company called EF Products, Inc. makes a product that consists of a set of fittings and two plastic tubes filled with liquid. you screw the tubes onto the R12 service ports, and with a socket wrench you turn the fitting on the end of the tube until all the liquid is forced into the system. Then you just charge the system with R134. The fluid in the tubes makes the mineral oil compatible with R134. The reason for oil in an A/C system is circulate with the refrigerent to lubricate the compressor. Interestingly enough this coversion kit is manufactured in Dallas, Texas.

Peter

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Autozen,

Everything you said seems to be right on the money. The only thing I would point out is that the York compressor in his 115 car does not hold up well at all to the added pressure of 134 (been there, done that.) Additionally the shaft seal in that compressor is kind of iffy when it comes to sealing 134. If it were a more modern compressor, your course of action would have lots of merit.

The York compressor based systems work great as long as they are kept with R12. It would seem to me that under his unique circumstances, staying with R12 would be the most economical and most effective thing for him to do, most especially since he is an area where 118 degrees on a Summer day is not at all unheard of.

My $0.02,

Larry,
Sounds like you have more experience in that area than I have, so I'll go with your 2 cents. Also I believe you have more humidity than we have which makes a difference. We have been experiencing humidity in the 10 to 30% humidity range. I do disagree with you, however, on the use of a rebuilt compressor. A guru who taught me a lot of A/C tricks many years ago advised against rebuilt units. He said that you don't know where a rebuilt unit came from. If the unit came from a moderate climate, you luck out. If the unit came from a climate where the compressor ran every day, it may suffer from metal fatigue. I don't know. Just my .02 cents.

Additionally, I also try to stick with R12 if possible. I have both R12 and R134 charging stations. I believe the R12 works better, and don't think that it should have been banned. I think that if it had been legislated to be used by professionals with licenses like other controlled substances, there would have been no need to change to another refrigerent, but, alas, we are dumb mechanics who are not allowed in the scheme of things. Sorry, Larry, I'm getting on my soap box again. We did just celebrate the 4th of July. I hope it wasn't just to watch fireworks, drink a few beers, and barbecue. What a let down that would be for the people who risked their lives to live in a democracy. Personal freedom is slipping away, and we are allowing it to happen. Seriously, how many people in America spend hours pouring over ballot issues to make an informed decision, and how many make their choices based on advertising. We have something in this country that others only dream of, and we are pissing it away. Idon't always wave a flag, But I have voted in every election since I was 21. I even voted absentee when I was at sea. I hope my vote was counted. Jeesh, am I on another trip? I don't even do drugs. I'm probably going to have to stop posting here as this stupid war rages on in Iraq. I guess I have lived near Berkeley way too long. I certainly don't expect an answer to this post.

Peter

Peter

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That is any compressor that came from around here or Texas.

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Jim

Yes those compressors are prone to failures like snapped con rods, because they have been run to death.

To all on this thread, I apologize for my political outbursts. I'm afraid I'm easilly excited when it comes to political issues. I have had to stop posting on the open discussion forum. I'm already taking 10 mg. of blood pressure medicine. I DO love my country. I't my government that I don't trust.

Peter

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Well, since you realize they are in the wrong spot.... we accept your apology...
I had to quit the open forum when I got to thinking about how easy some of those guys would be to FIND. Irbesartan is my drug of choice now....

Of course, you may have been in the "group" which caused me to leave there... so I won't go into how the Iraqi people deserved to be free of that Despot and his children....

Yeh, don't go there. This isn't the open forum.

Peter

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Larry,

I spoke to an ac man yeaterday and he recommended staying with the r12 if the system is salvagable. I think I will take his advice on both my slc and the 300d. The slc system works but probably needs recharging. I rarely use ac when I drive even on the hottest day (the world is full of masochists), but my wife, who is from N. Calif., requires ac. The 300d system doesn't work but I think I will stay with r12 again unless it is toast.