Eaton m90 supercharger install - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

rwd4evr · #1 05-20-2020, 03:08 PM

I've found a few mentions but no completed builds with a m90 on a om617 or om603. After watching much of Gale Banks how to kill a Duramax series I've come to the conclusion as he did that for instant throttle response you need a positive displacement blower. The m90 should be ideal. I'd love to see it completed before digging in though. I just got my om603 sdl ready to drive for engine condition verification and there are a couple m90's in a yard not too far. So does anyone have any info on a supercharged build of either motor?

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk

Diesel911 · #2 05-20-2020, 11:09 PM

What powers the supercharger?

rwd4evr · #3 05-21-2020, 02:47 AM

The engine off the crank shaft.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk

rwd4evr · #4 05-21-2020, 08:03 PM

If you aren't familiar these superchargers are the ones found on the 3.8 liter gm 3800 series v6 in tons of Pontiac Buick and olds cars from 92-2007. 50 bucks or so at junkyards.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk

Diesel911 · #5 05-22-2020, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr

If you aren't familiar these superchargers are the ones found on the 3.8 liter gm 3800 series v6 in tons of Pontiac Buick and olds cars from 92-2007. 50 bucks or so at junkyards.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk

I sure did not know they were on more common cars.

Mechanically driven means that the Supercharger also uses up some of the engine power.

I did an image.google.com search for 3.8 liter gm 3800 series v6 supercharger and it is bulky; takes up a lot of space. That means installation is not going to be easy.

It would be better of it was electrically driven and you could simply install a higher amperage alternator. That would simplify the installation.

I don't know how viable they are but I like 7 years ago I saw what was a Turbocharger Compressor Housing and bearing housing but where the Exhaust end would have bin had an electric motor on it.
The problem there is you would need a DC motor capable of the rpms needed to turn the Turbo compressor wheel fast enough.
If you could do that with the T3 the installation would not be so hard. Just a matter of fabricating some Exhaust between the Exhaust manifold and the down pipe.
You would need to fabricate of modify the existing turbine shaft

It also could be that a turbo compressor end with a larger Compressor wheel would not need to be turned as fast making the motor issue easier.

Go to https://images.google.com/ and search: electric supercharger; and see the goodies.

rwd4evr · #6 05-22-2020, 03:29 AM

Electric super chargers are brcoming a reality but they require a completely separate high voltage battery system and work more like nitrous where they have a limit and need to recharge. Yes a supercharger does take some power to run it but it's for low rpm boost right off idle and snappy gas like throttle response. Check out "killing a Duramax"on banks power channel for his actual monster jam compound super turbocharged Duramax motor. The turbo blowing through it will actually be spinning it after it makes more boost and there is a diverter valve to allow more boost without a restriction. The 3800 makes 240hp stock and spins 6000 rpm so it's not going to be running out of airflow easily. I think packaging alongside of the motor on the driver side is a possibility. You want an intercooler between the both stages and the engine ideally. Idk, we will see. I'm going to grab a 6 speed out of a c230 kompressor To use with the om603 this weekend and there is a m90 supercharger in the yard(if it hasn't been grabbed yet) , hopefully I'll have time to snag it for $53.50 or something like that. It's about perfect for a m110 low boost setup too so it won't go to waste anyway.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk

Diesel911 · #7 05-22-2020, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr

Electric super chargers are brcoming a reality but they require a completely separate high voltage battery system and work more like nitrous where they have a limit and need to recharge. Yes a supercharger does take some power to run it but it's for low rpm boost right off idle and snappy gas like throttle response. Check out "killing a Duramax"on banks power channel for his actual monster jam compound super turbocharged Duramax motor. The turbo blowing through it will actually be spinning it after it makes more boost and there is a diverter valve to allow more boost without a restriction. The 3800 makes 240hp stock and spins 6000 rpm so it's not going to be running out of airflow easily. I think packaging alongside of the motor on the driver side is a possibility. You want an intercooler between the both stages and the engine ideally. Idk, we will see. I'm going to grab a 6 speed out of a c230 kompressor To use with the om603 this weekend and there is a m90 supercharger in the yard(if it hasn't been grabbed yet) , hopefully I'll have time to snag it for $53.50 or something like that. It's about perfect for a m110 low boost setup too so it won't go to waste anyway.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk

I am actually not interested in the sort of thing you are thinking of it just happened I had looked into some things in the past.

There was an old Luxury Car from the 1930's called a Chord. It had a mechanical supercharger but it was not positive displacement. It had a large Turbocharger type compressor wheel in it.
The advantage of that is like with a turbo the idle air can easily be come in past the Compressor Wheel. A positive displacement blower/supercharger has to keep turning as it won't let in idle are if it stops (assuming there is no special bypass valves for the idle air).

Diesel911 · #8 05-22-2020, 12:24 PM

Commenting on the need for higher voltage. You can assemble several batteries so that you get the higher voltage but at the same time you can have another set of wires to charge the individual 12 volt batteries at 12 volts from a normal 12 volt alternator.

rwd4evr · #9 05-22-2020, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

I am actually not interested in the sort of thing you are thinking of it just happened I had looked into some things in the past.

There was an old Luxury Car from the 1930's called a Chord. It had a mechanical supercharger but it was not positive displacement. It had a large Turbocharger type compressor wheel in it.
The advantage of that is like with a turbo the idle air can easily be come in past the Compressor Wheel. A positive displacement blower/supercharger has to keep turning as it won't let in idle are if it stops (assuming there is no special bypass valves for the idle air).

That is a centrifugal supercharger. A mechanically driven turbo charger basically. Procharger is one company. Paxton mfg them for a long time, they were on 50's Thunderbirds. I want boost as soon a the throttle is touched. Only a positive displacement blower can do that.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk

rwd4evr · #10 05-22-2020, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Commenting on the need for higher voltage. You can assemble several batteries so that you get the higher voltage but at the same time you can have another set of wires to charge the individual 12 volt batteries at 12 volts from a normal 12 volt alternator.

Look up torque amp, they sell a kit that is fairly effective. Cletus McFarland you tube channel used two to make an extra 100 hp on a Cobalt. Its extremely expensive to make it work. The opposite of what I'm trying to do.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk

Inshan · #11 05-22-2020, 04:54 PM

If you don't already have increased fuel, extra boost won't get you far.

You already have modified fuel system?

Diseasel300 · #12 05-22-2020, 06:12 PM

Will the M90 maintain >14PSI boost at WOT? I'd expect the GM V6 to be running considerably lower boost than 14PSI. Are you building a superpump to tune the engine? If not, you're farting in the wind for no gain. Assuming you can deliver 14PSI (roughly what the stock turbo setup delivers), you're at a net loss from the horsepower required to drive the supercharger. The next big question - how are you intending to drive it? There's already zero room in front of the engine with the 603 in the car.

rwd4evr · #13 05-22-2020, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inshan

If you don't already have increased fuel, extra boost won't get you far.

You already have modified fuel system?

Propane Injection. Big pump at some point. Its not about top end power either. It's about Throttle response. 6-8 psi as soon as you touch the throttle and the diverter valve closes will give Throttle response like a normal car. Those couple seconds waiting for power crossing a divided highway suck.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk

rwd4evr · #14 05-22-2020, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diseasel300

Will the M90 maintain >14PSI boost at WOT? I'd expect the GM V6 to be running considerably lower boost than 14PSI. Are you building a superpump to tune the engine? If not, you're farting in the wind for no gain. Assuming you can deliver 14PSI (roughly what the stock turbo setup delivers), you're at a net loss from the horsepower required to drive the supercharger. The next big question - how are you intending to drive it? There's already zero room in front of the engine with the 603 in the car.

They can make over 300 hp in a gas 3800 over 7000 rpm so it will feedca diesel fine. The mechanical fan would probably have to go. It doesn't need to maintain 14 psi either. It needs to make it low rpm. The turbo will still be there to add as soon as it spools up. That's how a compound turbo supercharger works.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk

pawoSD · #15 05-23-2020, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr

Propane Injection. Big pump at some point. Its not about top end power either. It's about Throttle response. 6-8 psi as soon as you touch the throttle and the diverter valve closes will give Throttle response like a normal car. Those couple seconds waiting for power crossing a divided highway suck.

Sent from my SM-J737A using Tapatalk

No need to wait, when I had situations like that in my 300SD I'd just load it up for a couple seconds before I took off, was plenty snappy then.

Especially awesome with a straight pipe listening to that turbo spool up.

I'm spoiled now with the OM651, if you mash the throttle it will surge enough torque to cause traction control to kick in on dry pavement in less than a second, with 4matic....and much larger wheels/tires than the old cars had....mind boggling torque.