Looking at Getting a W124. Which Has the Best Highway MPG?
 

Good afternoon everyone! My name is Will, first post here. I've already learned quite a bit reading around old threads here, but still looking for some advice. If this is in the wrong forum, I apologize in advance and hope someone will move it for me.

Skip down to the bottom for the TL;DR.

Before I start, just some quick info about myself. I've noticed there are lots of international people around here, so just to clarify, I'm in the 'States. North Carolina to be specific. Young guy, mechanical engineer, and plenty able to work on things myself. I've built the motor, transmission, and rear end in my supercharged Mustang. Also have rebuilt the engine in my daily driver, an '01 Honda Civic. The point of all this, is that I'm quite capable of working on something. That said, I don't like doing it all the time, and hence why I'm here.

I'm looking to replace my current daily driver, a manual transmission 2001 Civic. I've had it for many years now, but with almost 350,000 miles on the clock, it's getting to the point where it seems like I'm working on it every few weeks. Combine that with the fact that it is so unbelievably boring to drive, and that I'm no longer a broke college student, and I'm just ready to move on.

Some more info about me: I drive around 30,000 miles a year to and from work. Literally 95% of the drive is interstate, where I ride at 70 mph with the cruise control on. To keep my yearly fuel costs down, highway fuel economy is very important to me; my goal so far when looking at a new ride has been at least 30 mpg on the highway. I have been impressed with my Honda concerning fuel mileage and overall cost to operate, and after looking at lots of different cars, I decided on getting a 2006-2007 Honda Accord, 4 door, V6, with 6-speed manual. It hits the 30 mpg highway check box, pretty roomy inside, has a nice 240 horsepower, and a nice transmission. Also, at roughly a $7000 price tag, the depreciation won't kill me on it either.

Still, it's a pretty boring car, without any real 'soul', and $7000 is on the upper limit of what I'm willing to spend for a car being driven 30k-40k miles a year. Regardless, this is the baseline I'm comparing everything to.

Enter Mercedes. I hadn't considered one during my search for a couple of reasons. 1, I'm not a huge fan of German long-term quality (or at least my perception of it). And 2, (kinda related to #1), they aren't available in a manual, or at least are very rare. I plan on driving a DD until it has at least 300,000 miles, and I tend to believe that autos, on a percentage basis, don't hold up for that long nearly as well as a manual does.

BUT, after some first hand accounts and good ole internet research, I've come to decide that a W124 Mercedes may offer what I want in terms of reliability, and whatever it sacrifices in fuel mileage, it should more than make up for in terms of a sweet looking ride with a lot of soul, as well as quite a discounted entry price well below the $7000 tag of the Accord. That being said, I still want to make an educated decision.

Assuming gas averages $2.50 a gallon over the next 3-4 years (it's currently $1.50 here, but I'm assuming it'll go up a good bit), the Accord would cost $2500 a year to drive to and from work. If I got 25 mpg from an old gas-burner W124, that yearly cost would be $3000 a year. Assuming I got the Merc for a good bit less than $7000 (which seems very reasonable), that'd be a breakeven point of several years, which I'm perfectly OK with. I'd prefer to go diesel, but it is roughly 25% more expensive here, so I'd need to get roughly 32 mpg from a diesel to equal the driving cost of a gas version (assuming it got 25 on the highway).



So, the TL;DR. What is the best gas model W124 for fuel mileage? Best diesel model for fuel mileage? Are my proposed numbers above possible (25 mpg for gas, 32 for diesel)? What are reasonable numbers I can expect on the highway at 70 mph? Best for reliability (I hear they're all roughly the same, just little quirks here and there)? I'm not particularly keen on the post-facelift models, so I want to keep it prior to 1993 or whenever they changed over. While more power is virtually always better, I'm ok sacrificing some in exchange for fuel economy.

From my reading, it looks like my best gas bet is a 260E or 300E 2.6, and my best bet with a diesel is the 90-93 300D with the turbo 2.5. Opinions?

Is $3000 going to get a decent gas model? $4000 for a decent diesel? Knowing that I plan to keep this and put at least a couple hundred thousand miles on over the coming years, I don't really want anything over 150k miles. Around 100k would be preferable, but I know those are getting rare and I'd have to pay for it.

Also, is it an option / worthwhile to swap a taller geared rear diff from some other model? I'd assume that the V8 models might have taller gears, and swapping those into a I6 or diesel model would potentially help highway fuel economy out quite a bit.

Thanks in advance for the help!

95 E300 (diesel).

I owned one and drove several long trips fully loaded (me+wife+3 kids in the back and all the luggage it would fit). We still got 35mpg.

95 is a one year car, last year of the w124 body, first year of the OM606 in the US. The lack of a turbo (it's a I6, non-turbo, 4 valves per cylinder) might bother you around town, but it flies on the highways.

The 24 gallon tank doesn't hurt either.

Wow. Good recommendation.

For whatever reason, I was mixed up on what the post-facelift W124s looked like. I was thinking of the 96 and later models. I don't care for the round headlight look at all. So 93-95 is good.

So it looks like that E300 diesel makes more power and gets better fuel mileage than a 300D 2.5 turbo. Which doesn't entirely surprise me considering 4 valves per cylinder versus 2. Mid 30s from a diesel on the highway is almost the exact same cost to drive as exactly 30 from a gas-burning Accord that I'm comparing all this to. I could definitely get behind that.

I just searched my local Craigslist. There is a '95 E300 Diesel only about 10 miles down the road from me. The best part: it's only got 108k miles, looks to be in great condition overall (at least for a DD), and they're only asking $2900. Think it's worth going to look at? That seems to be a better deal on any of the older turbo 2.5s I've seen on Craigslist so far.

1995 Mercedes E300D low miles

Both the 90-93 300D 2.5 and the 95 E300 are great cars...you would be happy with either. But, all things considered, the 95 is probably the best bet. Other than the biodegradable wiring harness (and of course the leaking evaporator common to all W124's), it really doesn't have a weak spot and will fun forever.

It is truly a buyer's market these days. There's no reason you can't get one in excellent condition with reasonably low miles (say 150k) for $3-4,000. The key things to look for are no rust and a well-documented maintenance history. Be patient and you won't be disappointed.

So I replied to the first comment here, but it's "Pending Approval", I'm assuming because I included a link in it.

In summary of what I said there, I mixed up what the post-facelift 94-95 cars looked like. I thought they were the 96 and up look with the round headlights, which I don't like very much at all. 94-95 would definitely be just fine.

95 E300 diesel looks to fit me very nicely. Actually more power than the 2.5 turbo, and way better fuel mileage from what I'm seeing. I suppose 4 valves per cylinder versus 2 tends to do that. Mid 30s mpg in a diesel would be more than acceptable to me. And combined with a nice big tank, I wouldn't be have to fill up every 3-4 days like I do now.

I searched for an E300 diesel on Craigslist, and to my surprise, had one pop up less than 10 miles from me. Is a '95, only 108k miles, looks to be in excellent condition, and they're only asking $2900. Think that's worth going to take a look at?

The only downside of the OM606 over the 2.5L OM602 is the glow plug sticking issue. I'm not saying it would stop me from buying a OM606 if it was in a really clean car, but the OM602 doesn't have that problem. Of course it does have the grenading vacuum pumps... Do the OM606's share the vac pump issue? or did they sort it out by that point?

I get 36 on my 1991 300d
 

I get 36 hwy, and 30 city on mine.

Had you considered a W126? Mine is a 1982 300SD but it runs pretty much like new with 186K on the clock.

MPG not as good since longer wheel 23MPG base but not boring to drive at all!

Engine is 5 cylinder and supposed to be one of the better ones. Turbo sounds great.

Might want to consider a 190D as well.
I'm about to acquire a 5-speed '84 190D,they commonly net around 40+mpg,BUT they're a) rare and b) lack the power of a 5cyl turbo (unless you get the '87 which is super rare but has the 5cyl turbo engine,om602) The '84 I'm looking at only has ~70hp and ~90ft lbs om601 2.2l 4cyl but makes up for it with the great fuel economy.

And the fact they're veggie friendly is a big plus,I'd personally stay away from the gasser's unless you found a really clean one really cheap.

My two cents

The 190D 2.2L is pretty rare but the 190D 2.5 Turbo is much more rare. I return ~40mpg on the highway at 65mph and mid 30s around town. Acceleration is lacking, but once at speed it's a pleasure. I really appreciate the 5 speed manual transmission. It helps reach the 40s mpg on the highway.

I agree with the 95 W124 if you still want to get a W124. The 606 is better in several ways, but don't turn your nose up at the 300D 2.5 Turbo. In the end, it may be worth it to go with the 2.5 when you consider the commonality of parts and such.

I personally like the 87 300D. the OM603 turbo is quite quick. Mileage about 29 on the highway, so you lose a bit from the later 124s. If not this, I would get a car with an OM 602 turbo. I have a 95, and its slow pick up off the line is quite annoying to me. The 700 mile plus range on vacations is nice though.

A $2900 E300 with 108K miles sounds like it needs TLC... lots of TLC.

Until gsxr chimes in, I'll suggest the 92-95 400E/E420. With it's 2.4x gears, it could get mid 20s with a light steady foot. That's on premium, though. An E320 particularly the 2.8 variety with it's 2.65 gears is another option but it also takes premium. I have no appreciation for KE-Jet. It was obsolete by the '80s and MB really stretched it into the late '80s. I'd walk past a 260E and 300E and keep going.

Be careful swapping longer legs into an older Diesel. The revs might dip into the stall range in high gear and you won't realize mpg benefits.

Sixto
83 300SD

You realize, of course, that you are considering a car that is, at a minimum, 21 years old.

IF mpg is a high priority, then a newer Mercedes should be considered, none of the w124 cars will impress compared to newer cars.

For the W124 gassers, the best mileage ones I've owned were the 86 300E 5 speed manual, the 93 400E, and several 94-95 E320s. All of them would approach 25 +/- mpg on the highway using premium.

For the diesels, I've owned an 87 300TD, a 91 300D 2.5 turbo, and a 95 E300. Best I would ever do with the 87 was 29 highway, the 91 and 95 both would approach 35 on the highway. The wagon had the most power, and neither the 91 nor the 95 impresses off the line. Disregarding the wagon body style (which is a favorite of mine), if I had to pick between the 87, 91 and the 95 as sedans, I'd pick the 95. I'd likely still be driving my 95 if I hadn't fallen in love with an 05 E320 CDI (which does absolutely everything better than any W115, W123 or W124 diesel I've ever owned).

For a daily driver, I'd pass right over the W124 line and look at W210 turbo diesels or the W211 CDI.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking W124s, I've owned a lot of them since 1993, and still have my E320 cabriolet (which I'll be keeping forever.:)). The newer cars have a lot to offer, and pricewise are not much of a stretch. I recently spent week in Tucson driving around in a nice 85 W123 wagon, and when I got back into town, I got in my CDI at the airport and was once again amazed at how much nicer the CDI is in all respects.


Jim

"...1, I'm not a huge fan of German long-term quality (or at least my perception of it)..."

Don't repeat the mistakes of those who gave you that impression of Mercedes. Mercedes made but a few 'bad,' cars but eventually some of the brand fell into the hands of 'bad,' owners.

I'd suggest you go toward the upper limit of your allowance, diligently seek an automobile which has all maintenance documents and thoroughly research the particular model before making your selection.

It appears you've already made a fairly good preliminary search and decided on the model which was the best first move. Good luck.

I have considered it, but I just don't need anything that big. If it were at the same fuel mileage, I'd think about it, but combined with the fuel mileage penalty, I'm going to pass for now.

I hadn't really considered the 190Ds, although it looks like those would be a nice option for me. I'll expand my search for those, too.

A manual would be awesome, but of the looking I've done so far, I haven't seen a single one for sale anywhere in the country.

Yea, I just don't need the extra power, though. The 95 is what, 135 horsepower? And the 90-93 is 125? Not a ton, but enough to move me down the road to and from work, especially if they return better fuel mileage.

Did you see the link? My posts were being funny earlier since they have to be "approved". 1995 Mercedes E300D low miles

I know external shape doesn't dictate mechanical shape, but it certainly looks good from the inside and outside.

I'm seeing other 95s in my area that look to be in similar good condition with <150k miles for $3500-$4000 asking price.

I actually thought about the 400s, but I don't think mid 20s on premium is going to cut it, especially when the Accord (for comparison) can get 30 mpg on regular no problem, and is faster.

I didn't realize that the 6 cylinders require premium, too. In that case, I think my options just got completely narrowed down to a diesel.

Good point about the gearing and the converter. I saw that somewhere, that none of them had lockup converters, and that's a pretty big disappointment. A lockup converter and overdrive would probably pretty easily add 10% on the highway fuel economy for these cars.

Yes, I'm sure a newer car with more power would return better fuel mileage. HOWEVER, I'm looking at total cost to own, which includes purchase price and depreciation. If I can get a 90-95 car for $3000 that gets 30 mpg, it would take 6+ years to break even with a newer car that costs $7000 that gets 40 mpg. Throw in the fact that the newer car is going to depreciate more per year, too, and it's just not economical to spend more than $4-5000.

This isn't even counting the differences in aesthetics. Sure, it's subjective, but I've never cared for the look of MBs after roughly '95, and I think the older ones look awesome. Especially when clean.

My Civic is nowhere near "nice". I'm sure a MB 10 years older is nicer in almost every way compared to what I have now.

That's a very good point, and pretty much why I'm here. I've never had any personal experiences with a German car, but I have many friends who have owned BMWs, VWs, Audis, and MBs over the years. All said and done, EVERY one of them spent LOTS of money working on them, hated them, and sold them for a pretty massive loss. BUT, they were all fairly new cars, maybe 2002-2004 at the oldest, and it seems the older ones have a lot less issues than the newer ones.

What got me turned on to the W124s was a recent afternoon I spent in a '92 (I think) 300E. It was a friend of mines, and we spent all afternoon cruising old dirt logging trails near where I live. We were flying through mud, bouncing through ditches, and literally going airborne over jumps. We did this for hours, all without the slightest of problems and with a smoother ride than any truck I'd traveled these trails on, haha. This guy drives his car just like this ALL the time, and has had it for many years with no issues at all. I would NEVER take my car down trails/roads like this, and he did it all day long without the slightest issue. I haven't laughed so hard in quite some time.

That's when I got to researching these cars online, seeing that they are a little different than the newer German cars that I'm more familiar with. So here I am.



In summary, it's looking to be narrowed down to a 95 E300D, 90-93 300D, or 190D (what year models?), with the slight edge going to the 95 at this point.

Best mileage, '87 190D 2.5 5-speed (EPA rated 37mpg). Turbo not far behind (34mpg), but only automatic. Both rare. The 201 body cars are great on your wallet in maintenance also, lots of used parts available, good build quality, solid chassis, easy to maintain, and reasonably simple. Watch for jack-hole and rocker rust on these, and the early 602 head had some cracking issues, solved by the newer castings in the '90s.

If you are tall, or carry back-seat passengers regularly, I would bypass the 201 series, regardless of its good qualities. I made it work for a couple of years as a daily, but often needed more space or more comfort and left it home.

The bigger brother was the 124, available with gasoline engines in the 300E & 260E, the rare 5-speed was decent on fuel, but not as good as the '94/'95 E320 (M104) which got much better mileage and much better power, and many creature comfort improvements. I found that these M104s start to become maintenance hungry when they get older. Mine always returned upper 20s on the highway, as good as my '87 300TD wagon. In the wagon you will lose about 2mpg, on the highway it is the poorer aerodynamics, city it is the extra ~300lbs over the rear wheels. Worth it if you like them or need the hauling space.

Diesel 124s: The '87 is good for around 30 in good tune (EPA rated 30mpg), getting that good at 75-80mpg is a pipe-dream though unless you have everything in good tune, which includes proper cam and IP timing, good injectors, a tight transmission, etc. I have returned mid-30s on a trip but it takes a lot of attention to detail. The later 300D 2.5 Turbo is a great car also, better mileage, but less power. Jumping right ahead to the '95 is good for mileage, about the same power with a different curve, but you need to watch the early-mid '90s cars for wire-harness problems. If it has had the engine wire harness replaced (IIRC around $700 if still available, just the part) then you should be fine. The '95 has more creature comforts and refinement, but also the biodegradable wire harness and poorer quality, and lots of body rust issues over the earlier zink-dipped 124s. You also get the facelift in '95 with the much improved headlamps (without standard wipers though).

The W210s are great cars also, but I'm not impressed with how they age. Some say to jump to the 211, but from what I read you're getting into a more expensive car to buy and maintain, I don't know if it fits your budget, and I had sworn off new Mercedes by that time / have no direct experience.

FWIW I've never been able to get mid 30's mpg on a 90-93 300D. 31 or so is the best I ever see (which, coincidentally, is also the EPA figure).

if you want to get a feel for the 190's... there is a turbo not far from you in the hands of a member... ya might give benhogan a PM, and ask to play with his car. if you are comfortable with the cramped quarters in it... the POWER and SPEED is amazing in these cars. the high fuel economy is a bonus. ( I have two of them and flat love them, but I'm not a large man) he was having minor issues with acceleration recently, and he may have fixed it, as he's not been on lately.

I've got his phone number if you feel like giving him a call... or I could ask him to call you, if you PM me your number.

I have two 5 speed versions of the 190D also... a 2.2, and a 2.5 as slow around town as the 2.5 is, I dread driving the 2.2, but I'd LOVE to get over 50mpg... my 2.5 hovers around 40 depending on how I drive...

for that matter, the 99 W210 E300 Diesel is an extrememly powerful car, with minor frailties, and the 5 speed locking TC automatic returns good mid 30MPG numbers...

Wow, lots of good info.

So the M104 option. Does it require premium gas? Or is that more of a suggestion? If an M104 can get mid-upper 20s on the highway with regular gas, then that's about the same from a cost point of a diesel getting low-mid 30s with the way prices are now, and quite a bit more power, too. And from the little bit of looking around I've done so far, it seems that the diesels command a bit more money than the gas burners.

Yea, I'm sure the W210s and newer are much nicer cars, but I'm not at all convinced that they can last 250k miles like a Honda or Toyota or older MB can, and that is a requirement for me.

Yea, that's more in line with what I was expecting and what I've read about from the 90-93 cars. And if a 95 really does get mid 30s, then that's a pretty strong advantage for me.

Hmm, I may take you up on that. I'm out of town from this afternoon through the middle of next week. I may contact you about it then.

I wasn't aware of any quality or rust issues with the 95 W124, but then again I'm not exactly in the rust belt either. Still, the quality seems to be excellent and is far better than my CLK or my much newer 4runner.

In any case, mine is in great tune and has been well maintained since before I had it, and obsessively maintained since. I typically get ~35mpg on highway trips out in the desert at 75mph with the A/C off, maybe a little less with it running. Not bad for a 21 year old rig with nearly 200k.

I like that the later W124 has a Denso A/C system, aside from the potentially leaky evap that all W124's suffer from (and W210's of a certain vintage), the system is a lot better than the ones found in the W123 and W126, at least in my experience. YMMV.

Mine did need a new wiring harness, about $400 from parts.com a couple years ago IIRC, so not nearly as expensive as the E320 or E420. I think the tricky glow plugs have also been mentioned, not sure if the one-off 95 E300 monovalve has been mentioned, but that's another thing to factor into your buying decision. It's important to keep the coolant fresh in any aluminum-headed diesel, Zerex G05 is the right stuff for the job and should be changed every 2-4 years depending on your level of OCD.

The 95 E300 gets my vote, it's my favorite MBZ ever, but it definitely loves the highway over the town, kind of a dog off the line, but great above 65mph.

I'm going to start off with, if you want any kind of decent fuel mileage, AVOID THE M103.. I don't care what other people say, my M103 powered wagon got 20mpgUS on a 100% highway commute, I hear the m104 is a little better, but if you want decent fuel mileage, I wouldn't buy any w124 gasoline mercedes. The w210 v6 is a much more fuel efficient engine, and doesn't have any of the head gasket issues. The e320 w210 can also be found for dirt cheap in excellent condition. All gasoline Mercedes require premium fuel, which adds another chunk onto your fuel bill. I would advise sticking with a diesel... but thats just me.

I'm going to combine a response to both of these. The 300SD w126 can return excellent fuel mileage, but you need to get the 1985 model. The higher stall speed torque converter and the shorter rear end put it into the 27-30mpgUS range. They also react well to even lower gearing than the 2.88 that the 1985 model had. The 300sd that I had started life as a 380se and the fellow that did the swap left the 2.47 rear end in it. Acceleration was fine as far as I was concerned and it returned and average of 27mpgUS during my ownership (with a high of 31 and a low of 25 if memory serves). The 27mpg was averaged over many tankfuls during the 3 years I owned it (probably should have kept that one) It was also quiet and effortless on the highway.

I'm almost offended by your comment about the W210, if it wasn't partially true.

I currently own two W210, one with M104 engine, the other with OM606 TD engine.

The M104 W210 regularly gets over 25 mpg. On 100% freeway travel, I've seen a best of 29 MPG....but then again, that was on Nevada gas, not the gimped down california gas. Gas tank range was about 450 miles on CA gas, mixed driving. 25 mpg, plus minus a couple depending on my driving habit.

It currently has 160k miles, and is still on the original engine/transmission. I have no reason to feel that it will die anytime soon.

The OM606 has 290k miles on the clock....and it's original. I bought it with 260k mile two years ago. I haven't spent a single dime on it except for replacing the AC compressor and dryer. Beside the fluid maintenance and replacing the tires, it still drives very strong. Engine, transmission both original. The transmission still shifts like butter. The PO religiously maintained it, as I do. I get about 28-29 MPG, and that's probably due to the age of the head -- I may need to take off the head and machine it. On a well maintained W210 diesel, it'll get 30+.

I regularly get 600 miles per tank, irrespective of how much I drive in the city or freeway. And on the freeway, the passing power is very impressive. I've had it up to 130 MPH and it was perfectly stable. No loss of power.

Now about the partially true comment -- MB at that time made the claim that 722.6 transmission fluid was a lifetime fluid -- so it never needed changing. And many owners believed that, so they were greatly surprised when the transmission grenade itself at around 100-150k miles due to low fluid, contaminated fluid or just plain crud. That, plus the fact that W210 is extremely susceptible to rust made prices drop like a rock. I would never, ever buy a W210 from the rust belt. Both of my car are california cars, and they have zero rust.

Biggest problem with the w210... butt ugly styling compared to the w124.

I personally couldn't stand looking at an E class beyond 1995 because of the w210. I finally liked the w212 and because of that the w211 has grown on me.

Yeah, you certainly don't want to dismiss the W210. The diesels can last a LONG time....300-400k miles very realistic. OBVIOUSLY the tranny needs to be regularly serviced. The ONLY issues with the W210 that I'm aware of are rust related.

Another vote for a '95 E300. But I'm biased. Easy to get 700 miles per tank in the winter and 800 in the summer, record is 858 miles on one tank.

Rgds,
Chris W.
'95 E300D, 460K

if you wish to drive a 210 diesel that's in great shape, JayBob has one in great shape high miles, getting around 32+mpg average...he's in columbia SC, but does a LOT of traveling and might arrange a visit on it to try out...

if you want to try out a 2.5 5 speed, drop me a note, or if you want to feel out a 190D turbo, and ben's not available or hasn't worked out the acceleration kinks, let me know when you're in the charlotte area, and come play with one of mine.

size, comfort, power, and range... it's hard to beat the 95.

If you are looking for fuel economy then the gas W124 is not the place to look. My 91 300TE wagon has a lifetime MPG of 19 however since I converted it to a manual its gone up to 24. Manual transmissions are exceptionally rare in the US. I would average around 20 MPG in my 400E with mostly city driving and in my new 2015 F150 I'm also averaging around 20 MPG in mostly city driving.

I would only look at a diesel or stick with the Honda and Prius types of the car world if fuel economy is your goal. You also mention you don't want to have to work on your car every few weeks. I had a W124 DD for 2 1/2 years until I bought my truck and while they are exceptionally wonderful to drive they are all now over 20 years old and generally needy cars. I found it was easier to have two so that when one was down for whatever reason I had another on hand to get to work. It was fun while it lasted but I got tired of always having to work on a car seemingly every weekend so I had a way to work on Monday. With my current batch of cars I can work on them when I want to and not when I have to.

I'm not trying to steer you away from these cars but just trying to share my experience and let you know that having a 20+ year old DD isn't for everyone.

I drive my TD daily when there isn't salt on the roads. They're very low maintenance if properly sorted (no deferred maintenance), mine gets fluid and filter changes and that's it in the last 50k miles. Wagons aren't the mileage kings though, and the '87 probably the lowest fuel mileage 124 diesel. Probably a later / lower power sedan for mileage (wagon Cd=0.35, sedan 0.31, gas sedan 0.30). The 124 is designed and built to go the distance (hello, taxis?), but no car will be reliable if neglected or abused long enough.

The Best highway mileage W124 is the 95 E300D able to go from Los Angeles to San francisco and back on single tank I own one with 360K miles and it's my daily driver and I drive 600 miles every week

Have you considered looking at VW TDIs? They are very complicated and difficult to work on, and take a lot of expensive tools and parts are not cheap, but if you buy a really good one, and just spend whatever it takes to maintain it properly and figure you will make the money back on fuel savings, they might suit your needs. I had one and sold it, but I know other people who like them. I would be afraid to pay much for a 95 w124, most of the ones i see for sale have major electical problems and the transmission is failing. I had a 300SD and drove it for years without too many major issues, but I wanted a nicer car that had working AC, so I bought a TDI jetta and put about 3k miles on it and sold it because I couldn'r afford all the work it needed. After that I sold the 300SD and bought a 98 E300D 2 years ago, which drives really nice and gets between 20 mpg (45 minutes of 5 mph traffic everyday) to 29 mpg (70 mph on the freeway), but I am about to list it for sale for several thousand dollars less than I paid becuase it has problems with the transmission electronics that are beyond my skill and budget to fix so its not driveable anymote, and likely buy another 300SD.

This is all from the new guys post.


Based on the details of your first post, I can tell.


Move. Really, at this point you should not have a bunch of stuff to cart around so relocation should be easy. If the job looks short term, rent.



If you get the 20 year old Mercedes, you will need a reliable second car as a back up. It could be the 01 Honda or possibly the Mustang but you will need something. Most parts for an older MB are readily available but probably are not stocked at the corner auto parts. This leads to a day or two of down time where parts for your old Honda are on the shelf.




An auto trans _car_ will last as long as a manual trans _car_ , same goes for a diesel or gas as the _car_ is largely the same no matter the drive train. An auto trans wears little on the highway but then at this point you would be looking at a high mile car, a low mile car is likely to have stop and go driving ( more trans shifts ) Regardless, internal and external rubber seals harden over time / thermal cycles so consider an auto trans rebuild part of the cost of ownership.

With the Mercedes remember you are dealing with nearly 30 year old technology and at minimum 20 years of calendar time. ( I'm also considering the design phase of the car you are looking at. )

I life parts on all the vehicles I own / care for rather than waiting for something to randomly break. I do this to the point of engine / trans rebuilds as I want the car down on my schedule so I'm not caught off guard.

In the end, if you have a few $ to spend, buy what you like, have at least one reliable car as a backup and drive on

97 SL 320: "Move. Really, at this point you should not have a bunch of stuff to cart around so relocation should be easy. If the job looks short term, rent. "

It's not always a commute to a fixed workplace. In the early '90s I lived a mile from the office and drove about 40K miles a year in my own car.

Sixto
83 300SD

Thanks for the info. Yes, asking about A/C system services and whatnot are on my list when I go look at one.

Yea, at this point, I think I'm ruling out a gas powered one. Having to run premium clearly makes a diesel more economical.

Haha, no offense meant. Just in my personal anecdotal evidence, an OBDII or later German car with all it's electronics, WILL give problems at some point or another. And honestly, it's not that that get's me; it's the fact that when those problems happen, the ONLY way to fix it is to take it to a dealer. No thanks.

+1. 96 or newer is out of the question. I really don't care for how they look.

That's awesome. 700 miles a tank is quite nice over the 400 or so I'm getting now.

Will do. That may be a good opportunity for me to learn a few things about these cars in general, too.

That's good info. It sounds like a gas W124 is pretty much out of the picture now, which only leaves the diesels. And honestly, I think a 95 E300 is the way I want to go.

I'm factoring the regular maintenance / aggravation into my decision. The biggest problem I have now is that I'm regularly working on a POS, ugly, boring Honda Civic. It might not be as big a deal on a little nicer car.

The other issue concerning me is that the Accord I'm looking at is fairly "modern" in terms of electronics and sensors. My current Civic is pretty basic, but the Accord has DBW and a whole slew of other electronic systems. That concerns me when talking about something lasting to more than a quarter million miles.

I thought about it, but meh. Once again, the newer ones (I think) are prone to big problems outside my ability to fix. And if the choice is an older VW or older MB, I'm going MB.

LoL! Am I that transparent?

Sorry. I get a little wordy sometimes.

It's kinda a long story, but that's not really an option. At least not for a few years.

I actually already own a house. The area that I live in is growing like crazy, with several big universities within a 10-15 minute drive, and LOTS of jobs around. The rental demand is HUGE. I'm still single, and have plenty of friends living in the area. So I bought a house, and living in it with roommates, who are paying more in rent than what my total monthly payment is. I don't see this situation changing for at least a few years, so I'm just saving up tons of money for a down payment on the next house. When I no longer have any friends in the area that want to rent with me, or when I am no longer single, I'll buy somewhere closer to work, and turn my current house into a full-blown rental, which at current going rates in the area, will easily cover the mortgage and then some.

So it's really a purely economical decision. While the long drive to and from work sucks, the amount of money I'm saving (both now and hopefully in the future) completely outweighs it.

And on the job side of things, changing isn't really an option either. If you would have asked me 6-7 years ago when I first started engineering school what I thought an awesome job would have looked like, I would have described what I'm doing now. Love it.

Those are all very good points. And I haven't really said or indicated this, but at no point have I planned on this being my only car. I've already learned that from the Civic. Life is certainly much less stressful knowing that I have another car to drive while working on the first one. I will actually be driving the Mustang this coming week, while I'm working on the Civic. Changing out the head (burnt valve).

I'm planning to get a diesel truck as a toy to play with at some point in the future. That would certainly be a viable backup option as well.

Good to know. I will plan for it.

Are there parts kits and/or write ups out there on how to do this?



Thanks again to everyone for all the help. I don't think I can ever remember coming to a new forum asking a question, and getting so many really helpful replies. Thanks a lot.

At this point, I think I've narrowed it down to a 95 E300D, if I decide to go the Mercedes route. There's a couple in my area that I'm going to look at this week when I get back home. Is there anything specifically that I should look for on those models? I already know to ask about the wiring harness and the A/C system. Anything else?

Sounds like you have things worked out pretty well. A few more points.

Being a landlord is lots of work, being one long distance can be an issue so take that into consideration if you move and rent the old house.

It's good that you are getting some $ from room mates but don't count on that income, they can leave in a split second and change your situation.

While not part of your original question it was eluded to in your above post. You are applying rational thinking to $ however here is another consideration. Given you lived like a poor college student in the past run the numbers at to what financial situation you would be if you continued to do so until your house ( and other debt if any ) was paid off early. Early pay off results in interest you don't have to pay.

Going into debt for a house is pretty unavoidable, however all other forms of debt are. Student loans , car loans, credit card debt are all things that will drag you down long term and are difficult to get on top of the farther down the line one goes.

I do NOT agree. My least reliable Mercedes ever, was within the first 4 years. It left me dead in a blizzard, had problems idling/stalling, went to the dealer multiple times for various issues, it was the one that made me swear off ever buying another new Mercedes.

OTOH, I like driving my '87 so much that I began using it as a (fair weather) daily driver. I don't put tons of miles on it, around 12,000/year, but it NEVER lets me down. I understand that many of these older cars have been through rough times, and maybe are not reliable, but so was my '87 when I bought it. However, I bought it knowing what it needed, gave it what it needed, and have driven it from under 200k miles to over 250k miles without any issues.

So my point is, these cars can be dead-solid reliable, or total money-pits. So can a 2y/o Jetta or Honda Pilot, it's all in the condition and care of the vehicle, and the OP seems fairly mechanical, I don't think he needs to be reminded that an older car needs to be in good condition to be reliable.

I was mainly refering to the earlier mk4 VW tdi (98 beetle, 99-02 golf and jetta), and yes, they are really hard to work on and the parts cost a lot of money, but you get 5-15 mpg better, and trade the disintegrating wiring, slipping transmission, having to pull the head and take it to a machine shop everytime you need new glow plugs, etc of the 95 w124 with undoing all of the stupid things whoever last worked on the vw did, and the complete suspension rebuild they all badly need after about 80k miles.

On the auto trans "" Are there parts kits and/or write ups out there on how to do this? ""

There are 3 auto transmissions for that era, others can tell you what specific one is used.

722.3 large 4 speed
722.4 small 4 speed version of the .3
722.5 large 5 speed version of the .3 ( not common, typically only found on the 300SL and 300 CE behind a 24 V inline 6 gas motor )

Taking an auto trans apart and putting it back together isn't terribly difficult for a mechanically minded person. There are some picture heavy threads on this site. Yes, there are lots of parts but then tend to be packaged in sections. There are some parts that can physically fit flipped over but will only operate properly in one direction so pay attention to disassembly.

The difficulty is in finding what _caused_ the failure and not just identifying the parts that were damaged. The upper half ( gear train / frictions. ) can be visually inspected, the lower half ( Valve body , governor ) is more subtle in failure and can cause failures in the upper half.

ATSG prints trans repair books that are used by professional shops. These books are ~ $ 20 + and are worth the purchase as they typically have lots of real world hints and info that can be difficult to find in a manufacturers service manual. The manufacturers service manual is a good idea too as not everything is in the ATSG manual. And, both manuals assume that the reader has some sort of trans experience.

Why do you have the idea that the diesels have slipping transmissions?

If you take care of it (20-25k fluid and filter changes with the right fluid) and make sure the modulator is properly adjusted and not leaking, you should expect north of 300k out of the original trans.

Absolutely no need to take a W210 to a dealer...any competent indie can do everything you need done.

A quick note on the Honda repair. While the head is off, consider changing the piston rings and rod bearings if you are going to keep this car any length of time.

There are a couple of things in play here as a mini engine rebuild will extend the overall life of the engine. Connecting rod bearings are the number one failure point on an engine. When you get a head on it with good valve seal, intake vacuum will now increase causing more oil to be drawn past the rings.

And, with new found power from good valve seal, floppy original low drag rings, the car tends to be driven harder but the bearings are worn to the point that the hydrodynamic wedge can't keep the bearing off the crank journal. The bearing touches the crank, material is rubbed off, oil clearance increases.

Aside from the fact that every single Mercedes diesel I have driven that was not a manual 240d had transmission issues of varying severity, I am referring to the fact that buying a 95 E300D on Craigslist for $3k likely means none of the gauges work, the a/c doesn't work, the transmission is starting to slip, it needs glow plugs and at least one will snap taking them out, etc. Pleasant surprises certainly may happen, but probably shouldn't be a part of deciding if you can afford it.

As far as the W210, I suppose that the dealer isn't necessary, but there is too much you can't do at home, and that's why I don't like them. The fact that i can't fix mine without having it towed to the dealer or other shop (which with the difference in distance would end up costing the same whether I paid in labor or towing bill) is why I don't want it any more.

Man, you have a dismal view of diesel 124s, I've had all good luck with transmissions.

Not true!
 

The 1995 has a bigger tank, something like 22 gallons rather than 18 in the other W124's. It doesn't mean it gets better gas mileage, it just means it stores more fuel.

For your budget and the highest MB diesel mpg, I'd set my sights on finding an 05/06 E320 CDI W211. No other MB diesel gets the mpg that the CDIs do - especially on the open road at high speeds above 40 plus mpg consistently! I'd make it a priority getting in one of these for the long term, were it me.

Sorry, I don't mean to say the nice ones people have and take care of well are junk, but the ones on Craigslist for $3500 are usually pretty bad. I still have a bad memory of test driving a 95 w124 diesel and almost hitting hit at a stoplight several times because it wouldn't move when you tried to accelerate. Car shopping always sucks though, I can't really think of any good options to look at once I get the dead w210 out of my driveway.

Wat. W210 is the next simplest mercedes. You only need the SDS/Xentry for the transmission and airbag issues. Everything else can be fixed with a generic code reader and the climate control code reader. Even then, there's the carsoft program that can read the transmission/airbag/ABS codes....and it costs less than $100.

You want complicated? Go look at a W221. Literally everything needs a SDS. I can only wonder how tough a W222 is. W210 is absurdly simple to maintain and requires little to no special tools.

But whatever, seems that you have a special hatred for MB and autos.

The 95 E300 tank will backfit into other W124s. My 91 300D 2.5 turbo had the 95 tank. I recall it's 24 gallons... It was nice to have the range on the 95 and 91 diesels, but my current 05 CDI goes a lot further on less fuel.

Jim

My folks have several rental properties. Based on the amount of time as a young 'un I spent helping them clean up ones as people moved out, I've got an idea on the amount of work they can be. Lol.

I'm not using the money I'm currently making from my roommates in my monthly budget. Half of it is going towards the principle on the house (to pay it off early), and the other half is going into savings for a down payment on the next house.

And yes, I'm still very much living like a college student. I graduated with no debt of any kind (student loans, CC, car payments, etc.), which is most of the reason why I was able to buy a house so early. This car I'm looking to buy to replace the Civic is going to be the first time I've spent more than maybe $1000 since graduating.

I figured there hopefully would be. I rebuilt the transmission in my Mustang, during which I learned that it isn't nearly as complicated as most make out. But then again, with there being millions of 4R70Ws out there, there was also LOTS of info and writeups on how to do it.

That's a good call, but I actually just did that about a year ago. It was burning over a quart of oil every gas tank (~400 miles). Turns out, all the oil rings were completely seized inside the piston.

Unfortunately, I screwed up and didn't go ahead and have a valve job done on the head while everything was apart. And now I'm reaping the consequences.

I suppose we'll see. Hopefully going to look at one either tonight or tomorrow.

Not happening. Way more money than I'm going to spend, and by the time the extra cost of diesel is factored in, it's not any more economical per mile than the Accord.