Frustration with W123 Valve Adjustment! - Page 11 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

rocky raccoon · #**151** 05-16-2015, 02:50 PM

The OP asked a simple question. We have all done routine valve adjustments without dealing with all this bullshyte theory.

We (you-all) may by now have driven the OP to sell his W123 and buy a Toyota.

leathermang · #**152** 05-16-2015, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocky raccoon

The OP asked a simple question. We have all done routine valve adjustments without dealing with all this bullshyte theory.

We (you-all) may by now have driven the OP to sell his W123 and buy a Toyota.

This appears to be YOUR FIRST POST in this long thread...
where were you the first page .... and perfectly explain this whole thing ... as I am sure you can do....
Lazy and with an attitude... you likely hate theory because you do not understand it enough to explain it to others...... smart people understand that the answers were to mis impressions expressed in the thread...
Did you know you can put specific members on " IGNORE " list and not ever see their posts ?

AND .... this is a forum.... correct information is not just for the OP...
it is for people needing info later on.... and there is no reason to leave bad info up to misguide them....

leathermang · #**153** 05-16-2015, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocky raccoon

The OP asked a simple question. We have all done routine valve adjustments without dealing with all this bullshyte theory.

We (you-all) may by now have driven the OP to sell his W123 and buy a Toyota.

Did you even read the subject of this thread ?
he is having to do a very different operation than setting the valves...

Left Coast · #**154** 05-16-2015, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas

Because we dont want to send people in the wrong direction.

And hes up a creek if his balancer is not installed correctly with that method. And if the job has to go farther.

My last 615 had the balancer off. And if i relied only on it i would have been in big trouble.

I made three major points. The first was that as long as the piston is at TDC, it makes no difference what stroke, it will keep the valve from falling into the cylinder. The second was that the best position for removing the rockers is not going to be precisely at TDC end of compression. The third is that you can't hurt the valves by rotating the engine once the rockers are out.

His engine was running reasonably well, so there's not much chance that the balancer is incorrectly installed. I'm not sure if the balancer damper on the 4 cylinder can drift. I'm not even sure that the 4 cyl has a damper, but I can accept the possibility that the pointer has moved. The belt and suspenders approach does no harm, especially if you are uncertain about what you are doing. Why do you think that I suggested he follow convention and bring the crank around to TDC end of compression? Visual confirmation on the cam at that point is simple and fast. In fact, that alone is really all that is necessary to get close enough.

leathermang · #**155** 05-16-2015, 03:59 PM

What makes a difference is access to the valve train with it not under load...

Why do you think that the top of the compression stroke and start of the power stroke.. both with both valves closed.. during all of each of those strokes.....is not the perfect place to perform the operation in question ?

leathermang · #**156** 05-16-2015, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Left Coast

.... Why do you think that I suggested he follow convention and bring the crank around to TDC end of compression? Visual confirmation on the cam at that point is simple and fast. In fact, that alone is really all that is necessary to get close enough.

You suggested that because that is the correct way to do it... for several reasons..... my posts have been in response to other posts suggesting that either TDC position was ok.... and only the position you describe is correct...

Lucas · #**157** 05-16-2015, 04:11 PM

Yes. Tdc after compression. We are in agreement. Conversation over.

Its how it is taught for a reason. Many of which already discussed.

Rotate until intake valve closes.

Hold hand over injector hole and rotate until air blows out.

Keep rolling to tdc mark.

If valves move after intake closes. Balancer is off. And report back for solutions.

Motor will run fine with the balancer is off.

For everyone else (op ignore):

There are two locating pins for the balancer on the 615/616. They are replaced everytime it comes off. Usually for a front crank seal job.

The ones MB provides are 4mm too long. They get installed without realizing and it eats the balancer (or crank, gulp).

It ends up spinning and is off randomly.

In which case if you only rely on it. The valve drops in.

I hope that makes sense.

Theres also the factor of IF the head ends up coming off. Keeping IP timing on. To not add to the job.

And many other reasons listed.

But it doesnt seem to get through.

Left Coast · #**158** 05-16-2015, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

You suggested that because that is the correct way to do it... for several reasons..... my posts have been in response to other posts suggesting that either TDC position was ok.... and only the position you describe is correct...

And my post was in response to that, because it is not the case. What matters, and to be clear I mean in the specific situation of needing to remove the nuts and spring which hold a valve in its guide, the only thing that matters is that the valve doesn't drop. And the valve will not drop if the piston is there to keep it from dropping, and it makes no difference at all which TDC as long as it is TDC or very close. And it makes no difference for the removal of the rockers either. That is fact, simple to understand, and you should know it is true. I say go with the convention because it is best practice. It does no harm in this case to ignore the stroke. It is not wrong and it will not box you in if you then discover that more extensive work is required.

Left Coast · #**159** 05-16-2015, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas

Yes. Tdc after compression. We are in agreement. Conversation over.
...Theres also the factor of IF the head ends up coming off. Keeping IP timing on. To not add to the job.

And many other reasons listed.

But it doesnt seem to get through.

I disagree, and I'd dispute in more detail on another thread, but this is so far from being on topic that I won't go there. I'll simply say again that IF the head has to come off that it isn't too late to bring things around to TDC after compression, and that the reason to do that is to eliminate extra thinking and the possibility of making an error.

Lucas · #**160** 05-16-2015, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Left Coast

I disagree, and I'd dispute in more detail on another thread, but this is so far from being on topic that I won't go there. I'll simply say again that IF the head has to come off that it isn't too late to bring things around to TDC after compression, and that the reason to do that is to eliminate extra thinking and the possibility of making an error.

Not if the valves down in there.. Cant turn it over then.

And you selectively cutting and pasting my quote. Please try again, include my whole quote, and address all other points. Balancer being off... Etc.

Lol.

This is how its taught and done. Im sorry. I will not give in and give bad advice.

Your argument is essentially throwing darts at a rock. They arent gonna stick, no matter how hard you try.

Lets leave it alone guys, agreed? This is absurd. Total testorone filled pissing contest.

We are advising to be careful, and take precautions. Your argument is included in ours.

Go enjoy your day.

Left Coast · #**161** 05-16-2015, 05:49 PM

Just so you know, I quoted what I disagree with, and with no intention to obfuscate. We do indeed agree on the practice, if not the method, of verifying TDC, but for different reasons.

If you've done this job, then you know that rotating the engine some may be necessary to work the rockers loose. So, having validated the balancer marks, it may well be expedient to just bring it around to the next TDC, at which point there's no need for concern. Get the job done, it won't hurt. If the balancer marks can't be validated, then we're not even discussing the same job, and that is a discussion for another thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas

Not if the valves down in there.. Cant turn it over then.

And you selectively cutting and pasting my quote. Please try again, include my whole quote, and address all other points. Balancer being off... Etc.

Lol.

This is how its taught and done. Im sorry. I will not give in and give bad advice.

Your argument is essentially throwing darts at a rock. They arent gonna stick, no matter how hard you try.

Lets leave it alone guys, agreed? This is absurd. Total testorone filled pissing contest.

We are advising to be careful, and take precautions. Your argument is included in ours.

Go enjoy your day.

funola · #**162** 05-16-2015, 05:59 PM

Just adjusted my valves. They got a little tighter since the last adjustment but not a lot. I couldn't find the remote starter that I made so had to make another one. I couldn't find a suitable momentary switch so took the case off of a spare Mercedes ice cube relay and soldered wires to it with alligator clips on the ends. Works just fine and will handle the current (7 to 8 amps). I would not advise using a relay as a momentary switch as you can accidentally trigger the starter if you are not careful. I hang it up in the air when not in my hand so it cannot be accidentally triggered. Here is a youtube of it. https://youtu.be/sIcoCBKpN7Y

It takes just seconds to position a valve. In this video, I point the lobe straight up, which produces the same feeler gauge reading as when the lobe is pointed at the oil feed tube. If pointed beyond the oil feed tube, the reading starts to increase. Because of that, I like to point it straight up, which is easier to see while standing in the front of the car.

Lucas · #**163** 05-16-2015, 06:09 PM

Im always nervous of hitting the button on accident too. Nice to be able to tap it on a block of wood. Quick little jumps.

funola · #**164** 05-16-2015, 06:12 PM

You don't want it to accidentally trigger when you have the wrenches and feeler gauge in there.

leathermang · #**165** 05-16-2015, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

....... I point the lobe straight up, which produces the same feeler gauge reading as when the lobe is pointed at the oil feed tube. If pointed beyond the oil feed tube, the reading starts to increase. Because of that, I like to point it straight up, which is easier to see while standing in the front of the car.

Why don't you share with us your theory on why the Mercedes Factory Shop manual would show as the correct position of the cam lobe the one o''clock position if straight up is just as good ?????????
A bunch of Sadists just trying to rain on your parade... harass you from the grave.... a conspiracy aimed at planned obsolescence.....There has to be some grand theory which causes you to think the VERY specific instructions in the Factory Shop Manual are just suggestions from which you can find an ' easier ' way to do it.