Just a few facts that can explain this whole thread.

1. This country is run by the ones that have money.

2. The people in #1 want old car off the road so they can sell new ones.

3. The same people in #1 (the oil companies) have the balance of gas and diesel and all other products they get from oil where they want it. They don't want biodiesel or other alternate fuels. What would they do with all the diesel and gas? This is a good thing for us.

4. If the gov bans diesel cars because they pollute, then they will have to ban diesel trucks. If that happens, we will all die from starvation. The dollar will be worthless because there will be nothing in the stores to buy.

It is a complicated mess .

As far a studies on pollution, I think it is just like accountants. A good accountant can take a set of company books and make a company show a profit so the company can get a loan. They can take the same books and show that the company lost great sums of money so the will have to pay less taxes. Don't tell me it can't be done, because I have had it done for me.
Scientist can take the same data and make it show what ever the want it to show.

Just my views.

PaulM

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84 500 SEL (307,xxx miles)

I too think it is one of the biggest crap holes in this country but there are a lot of people who seem to like it and it does have a better atmosphere than some of the other Randstad "satellite" such as Amserfoort that are pretty dead because most people who live there seem to just sleep there and go elsewhere to work...

I think that the the US of A will make a slower transition from fossil fuels because of several things - one being politics. My point of starting this thread was more to say "look what's happening elsewhere - this might speed changes where you are (where ever that may be)"

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

I'm looking forward to the day when my car can drive itself - I've always wanted a chauffeur! I hope retro fitting systems will be permitted so the old cars in some form or another can still be used.

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Really? I dread the day I can't drive my own car anymore. I love driving. Give me a small(ish) car with a proper 5 speed stick shift any day. Well, that or an old Benz obviously, although I really loathe Betsie's crappy slush-box. I know it will all disappear in the future, and there's nothing I can do about it, but that doesn't mean I'm looking forward to it.
I absolutely do not want to put my life in the hands of a bunch of electronics. Sure, people make mistakes when they drive, but I'd prefer very much to be in total control. I don't need now auto-breaking or lane-assist or adaptive cruise control, thanksverymuch.

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"The MB W123 is so bulletproof, you can drive them forever. Which is a good thing as it takes that long to get anywhere."
Betsie: 1984 W123 300D (hobby, 280k miles)
Myrla: 2001 Mazda Protege 2.0 ES 5spd (daily driver, 130k miles)
The Turd: 2007 Toyota Camry (wife's car, 118k miles)

Not car related but on the same thought. Netflix has a video entitled "Charlie Victor Romeo" , the last moments of the cockpit voice recordings before a crash. one of the chapters concerned a crew that was so dependent on the automated controls when static air sensing failed the crew had no way of controlling their aircraft.

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1993 MB 300D 245K died.

Sounds like the AirBus, the first fully automated airliner, that crashed and exploded in the trees on one of it's first demonstration flights!

On the original Star Trek episode 'The Ultimate Computer', after most of the Enterprise crew has been replaced by the revolutionary M-5 Multitronic unit (which ultimately runs amok) , Spock comments "Computers make excellent servants, but I have no wish to serve under them."

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

I wonder if there is going to be a glut of used old MB parts if the Euros ban diesel passenger vehicles. could be an opportunity to sell a bunch of used MBs as well

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1993 MB 300D 245K died.

That is what happened to the Air France that went down in the Atlantic a few summers ago.

Pitot tubes iced up, pilots believed the instruments, instead of their instincts, stalled out and crashed into the ocean.

ASN Aircraft accident Airbus A330-203 F-GZCP So Pedro and So Paulo Archipelago

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The OM 642/722.9 powered family
Still going strong
2014 ML350 Bluetec (wife's DD)
2013 E350 Bluetec (my DD)

both my kids cars went to junkyard in 2023
2008 ML320 CDI (Older son’s DD) fatal transmission failure, water soaked/fried rear SAM, numerous other issues, just too far gone to save (165k miles)
2008 E320 Bluetec (Younger son's DD) injector failed open and diluted oil with diesel, spun main bearings (240k miles)

1998 E300DT sold to TimFreeh
1987 300TD sold to vstech

Perhaps but it will come at the cost of some freedoms and responsibility. Then the old people that knew another way die off and the new more restrictive methods go unnoticed.

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85SD 240K & stopped counting painted, putting bac together. 84SD 180,000. sold to a neighbor and member here but I forget his handle. The 84 is much improved from when I had it. 85TD beginning to repair to DD status. Lots of stuff to do.

I would only want that when I'm going out drinking. Fortunately, they already have a system with similar utility. It's called a cab. I actually took one the day before yesterday to get home after I dropped my motorcycle off for service. My only complaint is that they are a bit expensive. It's about 2.7 miles (4.3 kilometers) from the bike shop to my house, and the cab fare was $10.50 (11.93 Euro) plus tip.

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Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 401,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 26,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.
99 Mazda Miata 183,xxx miles.

The feeling of control is pretty deceptive in Europe these days:-

They put thick double white lines everywhere and say you must not over take - in places where people ignore the paint they have started to build low concrete walls in the middle of the road that even a Hummer would have problems driving over - you are forced to drive at the speed of the stupid =>

If the road widens to a place with more lanes it turns into "wacky races" because everyone wants to get past the stupid cock head who has been doing 40 in an 80 for the last 25 kilometers.

Driving on a motorway in Europe these days is much like sitting in the train - the only difference being that you are to a certain extent in charge of controlling your carriage. In places with high traffic loads / congestion "Choice" actually buggers everything up! Because of some dick head braking too quickly or swerving out of his lane you get a wave effect of vehicles braking which often makes traffic further "down the track" come to a standstill

I long for a more organised system where the effect of bell ends is minimised - especially those menopausal vindictive hags who seem to start most of the road rage I see around here. A removal of choice and emotion from the roads of Europe would be a good thing even if there is an increase of this sort of thing =>

After a point the right of choice needs to be limited just to get the system moving again. If capitalists are now complaining that so many billions a second are lost due to road traffic congestion something surely will happen - won't it?

Taxis are expensive if you travel a lot. I tend to use the bus when I need a cheaper alternative and if I need to go further the trains here are pretty good.

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Problem is, at least in post-war US, back when fuel was really cheap, most planning centered around the automobile. A lot of long-distance passenger rail service simply disappeared, and the remaining train and bus service is pretty inadequate in many places. So if one wants to go somewhere, a car may be the only option. Plus poor planning. For example, on a couple occaisions where I've had to move a vehicle to my parents home in Virginia Beach, I had to take a Greyhound bus back to Northern Virginia. But the price is almost double if I want to actually get off in Northern Virginia. So I have to take the express bus to the Washington DC Greyhound terminal, which is inconveniently located a few miles from the local Metro station. So a 200 mile trip can turn into an all-day ordeal. Plus, even though the authorities insist they want everyone to use public transport, cutting corners with maintenance means the systems are too easily overloaded when some event (fuel prices, weather, etc...) causes an major increase in ridership!

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

Even in Holland where it is possible to get to about 80% of the country by public transport (and not resorting to very long walks and taxis) the time taken to get to many destinations makes car driving the sensible choice.

I'm all for car ownership - I'm mainly concerned with the fickle "law makers" who seem to be chopping and changing their minds at the moment.

Recently one of the right wing parties here in Holland were saying that Hybrid cars were total wank with big engines that are mostly being used instead of the electric option using more fuel than conventional vehicles - blah blah blah =>

Not that that's a great surprise to me - if anyone had stopped to think about it they'd have come up with that conclusion before they built the stupid things!

Still as many "business" users have gone "hybrid" over here they now seem likely to not get the financial benefits they expected any more. This governmental cocking about must be driving the motor industry up the effing wall =>

Diesel good <==> Diesel evil

Hybrid good <==> Hybrid evil

Now it seems like only "electric good" - can you imagine queues of "business" people waiting for a charging point so they can get to the next charging point? F*** me the the congestion here is bad enough with out having to deal with abandoned electric powered pieces of junk blocking up the roads!


{The future might be electric - but only when the battery technology gets better and people can use vehicles to a similar extent that they do now - changing the transport "requirements" of the modern world seems less likely to happen}

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Random thoughts on the laws of physics and reality of the situation.

Until they can improve the energy density (J/kg) of batteries to be comparable to fossil fuels then electric cars will never be viable. We have 2 to 3 orders of magnitude to go - x100 or x1000. Unless aliens land and give us the formula to some new carbon alloy the limits of physics are just not there. The leap from lead acid to lithium polymer is less than an order of magnitude in energy density.

Assuming they did somehow get a major breakthrough and can achieve that energy density, the electrical infrastructure in your house (or most commercial settings) would still be the limiting factor and you would still be looking at hours for a charge. You just can't deliver the energy fast enough given the limits of the distribution system. Ask anyone who has an electric tankless water heater, the residential neighborhood system was not designed to instantaneously deliver that much energy all at once. The system was sized for storage water heaters which spread the energy demand out over time.

I know Tesla has the "super chargers" but there is no free lunch there. They are charging at a high rate which accelerates the deterioration of the battery. That is why they limit you to only occasional use, the remainder is supposed to be on the slow rate.

Consider a fueling station with 18 dispensers all going at once. The amount of energy being delivered over the 3 or so minutes it takes those 18 cars to fill up is about equal to the energy delivered by one power plant. Even if they did develop a battery capable of being charged at a rate comparable to the energy transfer of fueling, they would have to build a power plant behind the station to be able to deliver enough instantaneous energy for the needs of the instant chargers. And assuming all that was somehow achieved, there is not an electrical connector that can handle the require magnitude of electrical energy, that can be reasonably mounted on a vehicle, and be safely handled by the general public. Just its size and weight alone would be an issue, not to mention the electrical hazards involved.

Speaking of electrical hazards of EVs and Hybrids, if you want some fun, go search for emergency response manual for your favorite brand. I like the Leaf's the best. The manual tells the responders about the electrical and chemical hazards they face if they come upon one of these in an accident. The battery is over 400 V dc. Nissan requires the rescuer to wear HRC 2 electrical PPE (a coverall, face shield, hard hat, and a NASCAR style sock hood, as well as insulated boots and lineman gloves - I know, I have to use this for my job) before approaching the car. If the car has been involved in a submersion event, the directive is "do not attempt rescue".

__________________
The OM 642/722.9 powered family
Still going strong
2014 ML350 Bluetec (wife's DD)
2013 E350 Bluetec (my DD)

both my kids cars went to junkyard in 2023
2008 ML320 CDI (Older son’s DD) fatal transmission failure, water soaked/fried rear SAM, numerous other issues, just too far gone to save (165k miles)
2008 E320 Bluetec (Younger son's DD) injector failed open and diluted oil with diesel, spun main bearings (240k miles)

1998 E300DT sold to TimFreeh
1987 300TD sold to vstech

The occupants or the car or both?

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85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked