For how much longer will they let us drive our old diesels? - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Stretch · #46 05-06-2013, 03:45 AM

The Dutch government have come up with a new plan.

Petrol powered vehicles older than 26 years old but younger than 40 years old are going to be taxed at a rate that is lower than the normal rate. They are no longer tax free - the rate is capped at 120 euros a year. However, you are no longer allowed to drive these vehicles in the months of December, January or February.

If you have a diesel or a petrol engine with a LPG conversion you have to pay the full road tax - which in my case works out at a silly price per kilometer I'm likely to drive. Before I go anywhere it will cost me about 1500 euros in road tax.

(I'm not sure if I'd be allowed to drive the vehicle in December, January or February even if I was prepared to pay the tax! This is one of those silly rules that is going to be difficult to enforce)

Only vehicles older than 40 years old are tax free - but then again I think the restriction of not driving in those winter months applies...

GJEMD · #47 05-06-2013, 07:48 AM

Anyone aware of aftermarket urea Blue tech treatment of exhaust for older
conventional diesels. Is it even feasible? Expensive?

Simpler=Better · #48 05-06-2013, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GJEMD

Anyone aware of aftermarket urea Blue tech treatment of exhaust for older
conventional diesels. Is it even feasible? Expensive?

The exhaust treatment systems are not central to the engine, they can be potentially adapted to any old motor with some engineering. Like adding catylitic converters to an old 70's car-if you get the carb jetted properly and the correct cat placement it will run normally with reduced emissions.

Picking the correct "diesel cat" and placing it properly will reduce emissions. I've got a plan for my build but that's so far off the internet will forget it by the time I get around to it.

DC Josh · #49 05-06-2013, 09:30 AM

Once this technology gets up and running, people will be lining up to try to buy our cars off of us!

In Detail: Solazyme Algae-Derived Biodiesel - Translogic

Stretch · #50 05-06-2013, 04:03 PM

I'd like to see some form of governmental encouragement for these new possibilities but I think you guys might be missing the point =>

This isn't about being green

<=

This is about envy and greed.

Someone in the Dutch government has looked at the numbers and has worked out that if all of those vehicles that happen to be between 26 and 40 years old and are "on the road" they could make more money by taxing them. Unfortunately it probably won't work out that way - people will either decide to stop using them and take then "off road!" or they will scrap them or sell them to people outside of this little country...

...the bitterest pill that they've been trying to swallow is that up until now, on paper, it is possible for someone to use an old car for business purposes and rack up millions of miles per year with out paying any road tax. In reality I don't think that anyone would find that would be economical; just look at the service intervals on an OM617 - it would spend more time in the garage waiting for another oil change than it would on the highways of Holland. In modern business terms it would be a pain in the arse...

Anyway - what I'm upset about is that now if I want to drive an old car (which is my personal preference) I need to either buy a modern car (which I don't want) to see me through the 3 months of the year when they have banned old cars or hire a car to tide me over. It is bloody madness for the 5000 km I drive a year. Time to move back home...

Simpler=Better · #51 05-06-2013, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

I'd like to see some form of governmental encouragement for these new possibilities but I think you guys might be missing the point =>

This isn't about being green

<=

This is about envy and greed.

Someone in the Dutch government has looked at the numbers and has worked out that if all of those vehicles that happen to be between 26 and 40 years old and are "on the road" they could make more money by taxing them. Unfortunately it probably won't work out that way - people will either decide to stop using them and take then "off road!" or they will scrap them or sell them to people outside of this little country...

...the bitterest pill that they've been trying to swallow is that up until now, on paper, it is possible for someone to use an old car for business purposes and rack up millions of miles per year with out paying any road tax. In reality I don't think that anyone would find that would be economical; just look at the service intervals on an OM617 - it would spend more time in the garage waiting for another oil change than it would on the highways of Holland. In modern business terms it would be a pain in the arse...

Anyway - what I'm upset about is that now if I want to drive an old car (which is my personal preference) I need to either buy a modern car (which I don't want) to see me through the 3 months of the year when they have banned old cars or hire a car to tide me over. It is bloody madness for the 5000 km I drive a year. Time to move back home...

What about a motorcycle?

aieeegrunt · #52 05-06-2013, 06:44 PM

I live in an area of Canada where my diesel is doubly exempt from government shenanigans. First because our region has clean enough air our cars are exempt from smog BS. Secondly even if that changed cars older than 25 years are also exempt.

Stretch · #53 05-07-2013, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simpler=Better

What about a motorcycle?

Unfortunately I have three small children and in this part of the world those three months often have the worst bike unfriendly weather.

Stretch · #54 05-07-2013, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aieeegrunt

I live in an area of Canada where my diesel is doubly exempt from government shenanigans. First because our region has clean enough air our cars are exempt from smog BS. Secondly even if that changed cars older than 25 years are also exempt.

So that's a move to Canada vote?

Skid Row Joe · #55 05-07-2013, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

I'd like to see some form of governmental encouragement for these new possibilities but I think you guys might be missing the point =>

This isn't about being green

<=

This is about envy and greed.

Someone in the Dutch government has looked at the numbers and has worked out that if all of those vehicles that happen to be between 26 and 40 years old and are "on the road" they could make more money by taxing them. Unfortunately it probably won't work out that way - people will either decide to stop using them and take then "off road!" or they will scrap them or sell them to people outside of this little country...

...the bitterest pill that they've been trying to swallow is that up until now, on paper, it is possible for someone to use an old car for business purposes and rack up millions of miles per year with out paying any road tax. In reality I don't think that anyone would find that would be economical; just look at the service intervals on an OM617 - it would spend more time in the garage waiting for another oil change than it would on the highways of Holland. In modern business terms it would be a pain in the arse...

Anyway - what I'm upset about is that now if I want to drive an old car (which is my personal preference) I need to either buy a modern car (which I don't want) to see me through the 3 months of the year when they have banned old cars or hire a car to tide me over. It is bloody madness for the 5000 km I drive a year. Time to move back home...

Envy is the worst sin, because there's no upside for those that have it.

I read a bit of this thread about 24 hours ago. It reminded me of how quickly change can happen taking rights away from people. I never gave it any thought (re: our old diesels being outlawed) but, yeah, it can happen in a matter of months with no outcry against our now draconian party in the White House here. (U.S.) What I got to reflecting on was how Cash For Clunkers Government credits wiped-out an entire supply of used cars in America, hence jacking what used cars were still there to jack-up in price. ie: a shortage went into action of used car supply. Everything the Government does to provide someone with $1.00 costs other $3.00 to $4.00. That's just the way the Government operates.

Codifex Maximus · #56 05-07-2013, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

As pointed out there are alternatives to running real diesel. Perhaps this is the future for most of us?

Does anyone know of any sources of data the show what kind of pollutants are produced by burning alternatives to diesel?

I was reading about pollution levels for fuels some time back and what I gathered was this:
BioDiesel is way cleaner, on pollutants across the board, than the cleanest petrol/gasoline and alot cleaner than DinoDiesel. The only downside to BioDiesel is that it puts out just a tiny bit more Nitrates - one thing. All the other metrics Biodiesel was very clean.

I think the whole anti-diesel thing is politically motivated.

GJEMD · #57 05-07-2013, 07:50 AM

This may be a squeeze play by manufacturers on Old "dirty" diesel.
Mercedes to offer 6 new clean diesel models. Add Mazda, Audi and VW and its clear they have motive to push "dirty diesel" off the roads.

Stretch · #58 05-07-2013, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Codifex Maximus

I was reading about pollution levels for fuels some time back and what I gathered was this:
BioDiesel is way cleaner, on pollutants across the board, than the cleanest petrol/gasoline and alot cleaner than DinoDiesel. The only downside to BioDiesel is that it puts out just a tiny bit more Nitrates - one thing. All the other metrics Biodiesel was very clean.

I think the whole anti-diesel thing is politically motivated.

Ten to fifteen years ago it was the wonder fuel that would save us all. That was just after they discovered that unleaded petrol is carcinogenic if I remember correctly...

Stretch · #59 05-07-2013, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

...What I got to reflecting on was how Cash For Clunkers Government credits wiped-out an entire supply of used cars in America, hence jacking what used cars were still there to jack-up in price. ie: a shortage went into action of used car supply. Everything the Government does to provide someone with $1.00 costs other $3.00 to $4.00. That's just the way the Government operates.

There was also a big drive over here to remove the old cars to get the economy flowing again - the irritating thing was that they used "going green" as the excuse. There's nothing green about throwing something away before it is used up.

Stretch · #60 05-07-2013, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GJEMD

This may be a squeeze play by manufacturers on Old "dirty" diesel.
Mercedes to offer 6 new clean diesel models. Add Mazda, Audi and VW and its clear they have motive to push "dirty diesel" off the roads.

Any clean diesel need to come from policy makers and the "manufacturers" of the fuel. The man on the street can do little about it.

If for example you only give people fast food to eat you can't then run a campaign to encourage them to eat more healthily!