the PO of my wagon left the car outside w/ the hood up to keep rodents from moving into the engine compartment for a couple yrs...apparently some rust started in the grooves of pulleys...after figuring out why my belts were prematurely dying...I sanded down as best I could inside the grooves...it has helped...now I can go about 1000k, but then the belts start getting whittled away...

any other suggestions OTHER than having to replace them? more sanding? i'm not confident taking all that apart -- so hopefully some other recommendations!

thanks as usual!

How about a wire brush?

I have had this issue as well but not as bad as yours I suspect. A powered wire circular brush on a power tool might be something I would try. A straight wire brush might wear you out before you got the grooves smoothed down.

It might have to be powered by a pneumatic small die grinder to get close enough but should help.Make absolutly sure to wear eye protection if you try this and let us know if this or whatever you do works out.

My second suggestion is what I actually did on a 123. The low milage car had been sitting under a mechanics lien for several years. I left a down payment until the garage owner got a valid title. It turned out the original owner did not co operate yet there where several things the garage owner had to do before the court would grant the title. So time moved on for another eight months.

I did not expect the owner of the car to co operate as by the time he got to where he was going. He probably figured he had been put over the fender with no vasoline in the middle of winter. He would have been right. The problem of it not running was minor.

It did not need a new injection pump and a starter as the garage had told him. It cost 500 american plus a fifty dollar flatbed charge and sevety five cents plus two hours for me to fix.It was a road kill car that had died on the highway on a thousand mile trip.

Anyways when I got the car running it ate the belts. I cleaned the grooves as well as I could and put new belts on. It ate them as well .

I did some thinking and decided that maybe those grooves would accept a larger belt in cross section. They will and it is a belt sold by stores as a utility belt. Sae in american inches. The issue then was to get the equivelant of a matched pair by carefull comparison. I did and they seem to be doing well so far. After running in the top of the belts are now at about the top of the groove. It was about 1/16 in higher initially.

I estimate in cross section they have perhaps twice the area of the factory size recommended type. I have not had to retension the alternator yet either so the increased groove contact area seems to also be benificial. Usually belts stretch somewhat when breaking in. As long as they remain well off the bottom of the grooves they will last I suspect.

The car is only used sporatically but more than a thousand miles so far and they are fine. Belt cost in Canada was under five dollars apiece at a Canadian tire store.

Logically they should be even cheaper in the states. I am almost postitive that had I put another set of continental belts on they would have gone bad.

As an incidental side issue I no longer would recommend normal belts on these engines. The side thrust loads are much reduced on that delightful crank pulley setup with the utility belts. You have the belt traction of almost four normal belts so tension for the alternator can be reduced a little at least. In my case have not had to retension at all. I am use to having to retension occassionally with good clean pulleys. .

How about a sisal polishing mop? I've seen some thin ones somewhere - may be it was dremel or proxon - they would at least tend not to remove too much metal and leave a rough surface which will collect more dirt muck and bring back the rust again...

So long as the corrosion isn't too bad use will eventually solve the problem - though I guess belt reliability might be hampered for a while!

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Being a slow thinker it took a little time to figure out why the oxidation was eating the belts. They where not slipping at first of course. I am not sure exactly still. Does anyone know for sure?

I also considered masking and a small sandblaster using media that did not leave a sharp textured surface like sand does. Perhaps walnut shells. Polishing afterwards of course if required.

Thanks a lot for the replies -- internationally too! I just got back from 's-Hertogenbosch, NL -- where are you at in NL?

After sanding these grooves better this time -- i imagine WD40 or similar rust preventive should help the rust from coming back?

Thanks again for all the help.

I'm in Deventer - famous for being the place where they filmed a bridge too far...

A Bridge Too Far (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...'cos there wasn't much of the original Arnhem left after the real event.

Why go to den Bosch - business - surely not pleasure!

__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

No business really --- den Bosch has a brilliant ceramic artist in residence facility called the European Ceramic Work Center (EKWC) and I'm real interested in going there someday. It seemed like a nice town?! My mom was born in Weesp -- not too far from Deventer.

Could you tell me more about the belts your talking about? where to get them?

thanks

The rust does not re form unless the car goes unused. Even unused for short periods the oxide layer if formed is so light it is burnished off.

No petroleum based lubricant of any type should be introduced if it contributes to slipping. Common hand soap rubbed on the v portion of the belts will transfer to the pulleys and induce storage protection to some extent. Restores traction at the same time.

It is also a quick fix for squeeling belts if on a trip and you cannot adjust the belt tension. Used this approach for forty years or so myself at least a few times.

Poor mans belt dressing I suppose. With the introduction of serpentine belts with automatic tensioners it is lost to history but will still work on the ones that do not have automatic tensioners I imagine. .

The real object on these particular cars as I see it is to transfer power with as little side tension as possible. The crank pulley set up is not the strongest out there. In fact a crank pulley failure can be really bad in some cases. A normal pulley also has a nice burnished type of appearance.

rust eating the belts eh... I've never had that issue with REALLY rusted pulleys and such... are you sure the alignment of the pulleys are ok? are you sure something is not hitting the belts? are you sure there is not a bearing issue on one of the accessories?
what car ? what engine?

__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 560SL convertible
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
2005 Dodge Sprinter 2500 158"WB
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

Depends I suppose but believe me belts will be destroyed with enough rust present. It just seems to eat the belts alive. Your geographical location may not generate enough rust on sitting pulleys. It is not really common here either as a fault.

I'm almost 100% sure it has to be the minimal rust that caused some rough spots in the pulleys -- since I can now go more miles since sanding them a bit...I don't have anything rubbing on the belts...and alignment is good...bearings OK too..

it is a 79 300TD

thanks

Ive put belts on engines with super rusty pulleys, the running of the engine cleaned out the pulleys in under 5 minutes, the only way the belt can be shredded is that the belt is running askew or the pulley grooves (poly belt) are not true.

__________________
2012 BMW X5 (Beef + Granite suspension model)

1995 E300D - The original humming machine (consumed by Flood 2017)
2000 E320 - The evolution (consumed by flood 2017)

Well in the example where I landed up using the utility belts. I repaired the car. Started the engine. In a few minutes the belts to the alternator where seriously reduced in cross section and slipping. Replaced with a new set of continentals after cleaning out the grooves a little. Ate them as well in an identical fashion in about an hour. Cleaned the pullies further and installed a pair of utility belts. No more issues.

Logically I was and still am uncertain of how the oxidation got those belts. I felt the oxidation should have just increased the belt traction. If you think of it though in service pulleys are highly burnished. So there has to be some action there. I think it may be when the belt is breaking free of the pulley it moves from tension in the groove vertically to running towards the other pulley when leaving.

As I stated more than once I am not certain. One varience with the utility belts is that they were slightly proud of the top of the vee and nearly touching sideways initially. So the belt may have exited the groove in a less loaded fashion. The top of a normal belt for these pullies is riding slightly below the top of the vee remember.

Also after being in service for awhile I noticed they now ride much closer to the top of the pulley groove instead of slightly above it. The car has 160k legitimate miles on it I believe so pully wear is probably not much of an issue. The vee contact area is substantially greater with the utility belts. That I instantly recognized as a real benifit on these cars. You obviously can have equal or greater belt traction at less tension.

I will read the size of the belts off the car and post them here. The car is a mile and a half away. If I remember they were 43or 44 inch sae belts but it has been a long time.

Thanks again for all the input --

Originally when this started happening, I couldn't go more than a 100 miles or so and I'd have to tighten the belt up because it was getting eaten so fast and starting to slip/squeal.

Believe me, I checked, re-checked, checked, etc. for good alignment from pulley to pulley. It is almost perfect. I thought about a bearing going out too...but i've checked that and OK too.

So, i finally somehow realized I had a couple spots on the fan pulley and the crankshaft pulley (?) that had a bit of rust/rough spots on them and took sand paper to them as best as I could.

After doing this, I could drive about 1000miles --- so I obviously noticed that what I did considerably helped.

I'll take the belt off....again...and check to see how rough the pulleys are and sand again.

thanks again everyone.