Self-contained block heater - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tbomachines · #1 10-12-2009, 10:40 PM

I searched for alternative block heater installs and I found everything from using starter fluid to a sterno stove placed under the oil pan. I've thought of another idea and I want some feedback on it, here's the deal:

I live in an urban area with street parking only, so running an extension cord out my front door is not the #1 choice here. I've been having more and more difficulty starting without the block heater (took 3 tries tonight, 40-45*F) so it scares me to think about the days where it doesn't get above freezing at all...

Anyways here was my thinking - has anyone tried to place an additional battery in the trunk hooked up to a power inverter, which is then hooked to a timer and the block heater? I was thinking a second battery could charge with the alternator (hooked up in parallel with current battery), then run the power inverter and block heater without draining the normal battery, which would be used to start the car. I guess I'm asking the electrical gurus - does the block heater draw too much power to run through an inverter (300W), and would that be able to run off a battery for say, 2-3 hours before charging again? If it is feasible (or has been done) I am very interested.

babymog · #2 10-12-2009, 10:52 PM

Watch ebay and craigslist for an original Webasto fuel-fired heater. They were a common option in northern Europe, can be turned on to keep the car warm.

kerry · #3 10-12-2009, 10:56 PM

Buy a cheap gasoline generator and put it in your trunk. There are Honda clones available for about $400.
By the way, I live in an urban area with street parking only and I run and extension cord in very cold weather.

Biodiesel300TD · #4 10-12-2009, 11:05 PM

Have you checked all your glow plugs, and adjusted the valves? These two things can drastically change your cold start situation.

tbomachines · #5 10-12-2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biodiesel300TD

Have you checked all your glow plugs, and adjusted the valves? These two things can drastically change your cold start situation.

I know there is something up with the glow plugs...light doesn't illuminate on the dash. I promised myself that I will be chasing down the glow plug issue and also doing a valve adjustment this weekend (last one was 5k ago) to make sure it is ok for the winter. I know those are problems, but it is only 40 degrees outside...usually gets to around 0 in the winter around here at least once or twice, and usually a month or two solid before coming back above freezing. Even with good plugs and a fresh valve job, I don't think it would start in 10 degrees without a block heater so I am concerned.

I found a couple cheapo 1000W generators on ebay for about $150 (60cc might even fit under the hood??). Does anyone know if 1000W is sufficient for these block heaters? I can't find the amount of current they draw anywhere.

kerry · #6 10-12-2009, 11:16 PM

Wattage of heaters depends on the specific heater. I think they range between 200 and 1500 watts I think.
Here's a 4 stroke clone at Costco:
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30236&highlight=costco+generator

tbomachines · #7 10-12-2009, 11:26 PM

Hmm...home depot has a 2000W for $200. 78Db sound rating though, that is pretty loud. I bet I could get a junkyard muffler to quiet it and stick the exhaust out through my rust hole

Billybob · #8 10-13-2009, 12:13 AM

OEM block heater is a 400 watt inductive load if I'm not mistaken.

If you're up to making something work for you!

How about a propane fired camping water heater plumbed into the cabin heater circuit and having the auxilliary pump running to circulate coolant through the unit while it is running! You might have to do some engineering to the heater coil's input and output for connections but it should be doable. You would likely need to find or build a short adapter hose/pipe to reposition the standard disposable propane tank but again that should be a relatively easy fix. Get a 20 pound take and a refilling adapter for the small tanks and you should be good to go! Keep a tank hooked up under the hood, a spare filled in the trunk and you should be good for a couple days maybe depending on fuel consumption rates, when one tank empties swap it out and refill the empty when your home! Propane is a $1-2 a pound so that makes it managable, financially.

I assume the heater operates with a mechanical piezo electronic sparker/valve arraingment but even that might be modifiable to work on a timer so you wouldn't need to go out to the car and start it an hour before you need to start and drive. Maybe a solenoid could be the actuator of the initiator?

This one is the least expensive I could find with a quick search and its at Walmart!!!! From the description the heater housing itself is about 8" square and 10" high

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4698021&sourceid=1500000000000003260410&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=4698021

This larger more expensive one might even work better as it has a feature that turns it on automatically once the water flow begins! A seperate auxilliary coolant pump on an automatic timer would cause it to start!? A 3-5 pound tank in the passenger seat and your warm and toasty!

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10363535&findingMethod=rr

pawoSD · #9 10-13-2009, 08:44 AM

Does it really get cold enough there to need a block heater? I am in the MI Tundra and do just fine without using mine....even when its -10F out I rarely have any issues. Make sure the battery/starter/valves/glow plugs are healthy, and it should be fine unless the motor is on its last legs....but at 187k it should have 0 issues. Mine has 283k and starts up great.

I'd stick with an extension cord. Just run it out to the car only when needed. 2-3 hours of block heater should be enough to offset the cold in most situations. Just go out and plug it in a while before you leave.

Generators are pointless.....and a battery could never hope to run a block heater. (unless you used two GIANT batteries) and that would be pricey $$$ And you'd still have to recharge them, as they would likely be slow-charge and a normal drive would never get them topped off in time.

tbomachines · #10 10-13-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Does it really get cold enough there to need a block heater? I am in the MI Tundra and do just fine without using mine....even when its -10F out I rarely have any issues. Make sure the battery/starter/valves/glow plugs are healthy, and it should be fine unless the motor is on its last legs....but at 187k it should have 0 issues. Mine has 283k and starts up great.

I'd stick with an extension cord. Just run it out to the car only when needed. 2-3 hours of block heater should be enough to offset the cold in most situations. Just go out and plug it in a while before you leave.

Generators are pointless.....and a battery could never hope to run a block heater. (unless you used two GIANT batteries) and that would be pricey $$$ And you'd still have to recharge them, as they would likely be slow-charge and a normal drive would never get them topped off in time.

I don't think my compression is as good as yours

I got me some blowby here. You'd THINK that it would still be a pretty fresh engine but the PO wasn't the brightest and abused the thing pretty bad.

fruitcakesa · #11 10-13-2009, 09:56 AM

I have to agree with others about all the starting prerequisites being A1 beginning with good GP's and full glow cycling.
If you are doubtful about engine comp etc. then that can be a starting issue that requires more heat.
FWIW, my 82 has a block heater, the TDI has a Frost TDIheater and the Cummins has a grid heater and I try to use them all in really cold temps just to ease the strain on the engine and get a little hot water in the system

pawoSD · #12 10-13-2009, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

I don't think my compression is as good as yours

I got me some blowby here. You'd THINK that it would still be a pretty fresh engine but the PO wasn't the brightest and abused the thing pretty bad.

Interestingly enough, my engine has always had a good amount of blowby, but it is the strongest performer of the 4 that we have.....weird.

With my 1985 torque converter I can actually skitter the tires on dry pavement now if I nail it from a standing start.

toomany MBZ · #13 10-13-2009, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

Anyways here was my thinking - has anyone tried to place an additional battery in the trunk hooked up to a power inverter, which is then hooked to a timer and the block heater? I was thinking a second battery could charge with the alternator (hooked up in parallel with current battery), then run the power inverter and block heater without draining the normal battery, which would be used to start the car. I guess I'm asking the electrical gurus - does the block heater draw too much power to run through an inverter (300W), and would that be able to run off a battery for say, 2-3 hours before charging again? If it is feasible (or has been done) I am very interested.

I understand one of the most power sucking things out there is to jam enough electricity into a metal rod to heat it up, what you're doing in essence is a controlled meltdown. I also understand converting DC to AC is quite inefficient. I was going to try something similar, a friend who knows DC talked me out of it.
Install new gp's, adjust the valves see if that helps.

babymog · #14 10-13-2009, 12:09 PM

You can also try "double-plugging", cycle the glow-plugs for the full 30seconds, turn the key off and back on for another round, helps sometimes in the bitter cold as it heats the prechamber a bit more.

Of course, you'll be wearing out your glow-plugs faster, but it's better than cranking longer IMO.

Scruffyguy1981 · #15 10-15-2009, 06:18 PM

A great way to get a cold diesel with sick glow plugs to start is with a propane torch. On most diesels if you remove the plumbing to the intake , light the torch and hold it inside for about 20-30 seconds then have someone crank at the same time it will fire right up. On the engine in our SD's it is a little hard to gain that kind of access to the intake, but you should be able to simply heat the area where the turbo attaches to the manifold. I've never had my turbo off before, but looking at the service CD there doesn't appear to be any kind of gasket or oring in there. If you want to play it safe heating the manifold further downstream will work well. It only has to heat the air a little. Diesel fuel needs to be at least 600 or so for good combustion. It will ignite as low as 450 but you'll have lots of smoke. This will clear up as the engine warms.