Hi,

For the last few weeks I've had a knocking problem in my 82 240D. Whenever I hit mid throttle under a small amount of load, I'd get clatter. Idle was fine, wide open fine. I had this problem last year on my first tank of ULSD. I tried a lot of things and finally removing, disassembling and cleaning the injectors got rid of the clatter. BTW, I burn WVO off and on with a two tank system. Also, tried valve adjustment and pump timing to no avail.

A couple of months ago, it started again. I pulled the injectors and they were dirty. I cleaned them. Still clattered. I tried cleaning all the spooge from the intake. Still clattered. Tried B20 and the STP diesel cleaner you put in the tank. Still clattered. Cracked each injector and it seemed that the clatter was in all the cylinders.

Well, I bit the bullet and bought two cans of diesel purge after hearing all the hype about it here and at other places. I never thought much of snake oil but I was getting pretty desperate. I could just picture the hole forming in the crowns of the pistons. And it is hard to tell people how nice a W123 is when your car sounds like LaMachine.

Anyhow, it worked. During the purge it went away. I didn't have my hopes up because I figured that Diesel Purge must have some anti knock additives. But I've put about 20 miles on the car after the purge and it is still sounding good.

No, it didn't stop smoking when I gun it. No it isn't too much smoother. But YES the clatter at tip in is gone! Oh yeah, and that thing about changing filters because of all the "dirt" it frees was not true for me. I watched the returned fuel in the clear bottle and it never got dirty. Very clear in fact. Whatever it cleaned got burned or was dissolved.

That was some expensive juice. Anyone have any ideas what it cleaned? I thought the fuel was too burned to clean the prechambers...maybe ignorant here. My injectors were clean. All I can really think of is all that WVO is gumming up my IP. My car gets addicted to it in that I burn it and it runs well then when I switch back to ULSD it clatters. Having a dry spell of oil I've been running ULSD lately and had the problem.

The WVO has made a sticky mess out of my filter rig and jugs. Could this same stick be messing with the pump?

So at the risk of sounding like a snake oil idiot (the kind I used to think posted here) Diesel Purge worked for me!

Another free ad for Diesel Purge. And again by someone with just about 100 posts... Will we ever hear from this guy again or was this the only purpose for this login?

Don't waste your money on products that don't work when tested by automotive engineering standards organizations.

Your posts on "cleaning your injectors" are not convincing. If you clean and test your injectors as described in the factory manual and that doesn't solve your problem then the problem is in your head and that is the only type of problem that DP could help you with.

WTF does this mean?? Kobayashi, my apologies for rudeness of TK.

The only question I've got is whether its "knocking" or "nailing" that DP cured. Difference is nailing sounds like ball peen hammer striking steel and knocking does not. Seems logical that burning the pre-comp chambers clean as DP does would eliminate nailing.

[QUOTE=TwitchKitty;1606445]Another free ad for Diesel Purge. And again by someone with just about 100 posts... [QUOTE]

Heya TwitKitty, after reading this thread betcha many of us are thinking you've been posting on this forum too damned much.

__________________
'80 300SD/ w116
'79 240D 4-spd
'71 750cc Guzzi

previously owned:

'83 240D 4-spd
'77 280SEL 4-spd
'74 280/8
'72 250/8
'65 220Sb 4-spd
'63 220Sb 4-spd
'63 190c 4-spd
'61 220Sb 4-spd
'60 190b 4-spd

You so funny. You post more than me.

If you think at all then this is working. Ignorance is bliss.

It is hilarious that people take offense at a suggestion that they read the shop manual to learn how to work on their cars.

If you buy one of these cars and want it to run the way the factory intended it, you will probably have to either replace the injector nozzles or manually clean them.

There have been issues with replacement injector nozzles so read about them before you buy.

Injector shops deal with these cars very little and you will be lucky to find one that knows about this type of nozzle. Even if they do know about them, there is no way that they can properly clean out the pintle holes for the price of a new nozzle. The labor cost for cleaning would exceed the cost of a new nozzle.

The cars run reasonably well with clogged pintle holes and over the years I bet that most injectors returned from injection shops as "rebuilt" or "tested good" have clogged pintle holes. Most of the cars running on the road probably have clogged pintle holes. But, if you want your car to run just right, adjust the valves first and then get the injectors working right, the way the book says.

Every time I tell about the issues here, people get emotional. It is a normal part of learning.

Twitch, why not tell us more about the "pintle hole" instead of telling us to read the book? Not everyone have access to the FSM you know.

Are you saying there is a tiny hole through the center of the pintle? what is its diameter and depth? Why is it there and how does it work? The picture you posted is too small to make out the details.

__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

You need to search it. I can't write a book about this for each new group of MB owners.

Check eBay for a manual. The classifieds here may help. The manual for any 61x engine would cover this topic. I have bought them for less than $10 and as much as $50, depending on the version.

The hole in the middle of the pintle connects to a cross hole and the bulk of the fuel injected should pass through the holes. The holes are so small that you will probably never notice them without magnification. Bosch sells tiny wires to clean them, another member here posted that he uses a dental drill, I have used a tiny brass wire. Be careful not to break off the tool in the hole. Steel can scratch the sealing surfaces and make the injector leak.

Another often overlooked part of injector maintenence is the leak-test. If the injector leaks at pressures approaching pop-pressure it is probably not worth messing with, cleaning may fix it.

This link will take you to a thread with what is probably the best information on this topic that you will find on this site.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=155294

Read the following statements you made and maybe you'll understand why your good advice gets glossed over or missed and you wonder why people take offense:

"Another free ad for Diesel Purge. And again by someone with just about 100 posts..."

"It's your money and time and your car. Waste what you want to waste. Playing mechanic is fine if that is what you want to do. Use DP and you may get to play alot of mechanic and even pay some real mechanics, real money."

" Consumerism is deeply ingrained and difficult to get past, you can do it if think for yourself."

"I think a lot of the posts on DP are free advertising."

"Some people will tell you that cocaine makes them think better. People are easily fooled."

"If you think at all then this is working. Ignorance is bliss."

We may be wrong on DP, but these assumptions/judgments you make about the members who have posted on this thread and other DP-related topics are totally baseless. And you wonder why people are treating you badly?

The previous statements are all very constructive ways to suggest this, huh? No, their tone runs more along the lines of, "you ignorant %#$%, read the *&*@* manual before you ruin the car."

__________________
1983 300SD (W126, OM617) with 404k miles!
(OK, so the engine was replaced at 147k mi)

I already explained this but otherwise your post is on point, thanks.

Hi,

I'm back. And you're wondering why people like me don't return? I've been working on my car TK! Now I can take a break and deal with this post.

TK, why are my posts about cleaning my injectors not convincing? You think I'm making this up? I only posted 100 times? That's a lot! Thanks for reminding me how much time I'm wasting online instead of actually working on my car. Not "convincing"? I'll have to look back and see where my lies fell apart. Sheesh!

Hey, I was just really excited about the big change. I have taken my injectors down (TK I really have, on my 300TD and 240D, never read the FSM, just took them apart and cleaned them. It helped the first few times I tried it). And the three times I've done it over the last few years, they were really crudded up. A little noodle of soot was formed dangling off the pintle like an icicle of tar, and a atoll of tar formed around the nozzle. Very stubborn stuff. Note however it was only on the exposed surfaces of the injector, inside it was very clean. I had to soak the nozzels in gumout overnight before it submitted to a razor blade...and even then it took work. So I will agree with you, I don't think it is easy to just pour something into the IP and get this stuff off. But, I did clean it off manually and as I said, it didn't solve the clatter this time around, so I got desperate and tried the DP. WVO apparently causes some serious deposits on the nozzle and pintle but that is for another post.

What I was trying to get at is I don't think the problem was in the injectors but rather the mechanisms of the IP. Since it was a midrange clatter I think there was some kind of speed dependent governor that modifies timing at mid throttle that was not functioning before the DP went in.

I'm not a DP seller, in fact I think it is very expensive. To prove it, get this. The car still had a little bit of clatter at mid throttle. It was 80% gone but I got obsessive and purged with some Marvel Mystery Oil (NO NOT AN MMO seller either!) that I bought for a small fraction of the price of the DP and it improved the lack of clatter further. After the DP I had to really work at it to get it into the right load range and rpm range for it to clatter, now I cannot do it at all. So I think next time this comes up, I'll purge with the other half of the MMO that is left over. MMO costs 5x less that DP. Maybe I'll even try ATF if I'm really feeling cheap.

Thanks to all the Diesel Discussion folks who thanklessly provide solutions and helpful tips here that have saved me over and over. I was just trying to give back a bit with this post...along with my other lies ahem posts.

Cheers,
Yoko

From what you are posting I don't think that you have cleaned your injectors yet, read the book. You may have done more damage than good.

You posted before that you had this problem fixed. Was it fixed then and is it fixed now?

DP isn't snake oil in my view. It's a powerful, high-cetane solvent mix that dissolves carbon and petroleum-based crud. VO is known to cause all kinds of problems and waxy residues in the fuel system is one of them. As I've said before, if you're concerned about the environment, use biodiesel. Just a suggestion.

__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

If you clean an injector by the book you will see that obviously there is no way that any solvent run through your system could ever do the job.

Read the book.

Agree'd, although you should continue your statement adding "as good as a manual cleaning will."

To say that DP has no place in your tool box is incorrect as in some instances it is helpful.

__________________
Terry Allison
N. Calif. & Boca Chica, Panama

09' E320 Bluetec 77k (USA)
09' Hyundai Santa Fe Diesel 48k (S.A.)

Manual cleaning of injectors (which I have done BTW) only cleans the injectors. DP has the chance to clean up the entire fuel system (for example if you have waxy deposits from VO use) and it may even help clean up prechamber deposits.

__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

I hear it also aids in dissolving the carbon deposits on piston crowns... of course a nice Italian tune up should do the same.

__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 560SL convertible
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
2005 Dodge Sprinter 2500 158"WB
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!