616 as a marine engine?
 

I've been looking at sailboats in the 40 ft range recently. Most of these use diesel inboards with about 40-60 HP. Seems to be that a 616 would be a good engine to use if a re-power was necessary. What do you think?

My 1st concern would be all that saltwater. Marine engines are built around boats, boats have different cooling systems, it might be tricky to adopt a car engine to the marine environment.

Also the 616 engine is probably much heavier than a marine engine with same kind of HP output.

Where is Haterasguy, he might chime in on this better then I could

A closed circuit cooling system is a must. I can imagine what salt water and untreated lake water could do....

Yes a closed cooling system would me mandatory. I think that closed systems are fairly common in these applications.

i would totally try and use a Benz diesel as a marine engine.......MB used to make marine engines, aircraft engines, and car engines after all....

OM636 (170D) Marine engines: http://www.west-4x4.demon.co.uk/om636/

The boat
http://www.bamselia.no/peratle/uncom...ges/boat02.JPG
It's Mercedes OM352A (5.7L), 210HP turbocharged powerplant
http://www.bamselia.no/peratle/uncom...ges/boat04.JPG

SWEET!!!!!!! :cool:

Of all of the Mercedes engines, the 616 and 617 would fare the best if you had to cool with salt water. All cast iron.
But knowing Mercedes, they would have a fresh water system with a salt water heat exchanger.

MB did make marine engines, you run across them in old Euro boats every so often. They are a rare bird in this country though.

As far as marinesing a 616 I think that would be throwing good money after bad. I have never seen an automotive engine successfully marinised.

Most sailboat auxiliaries are good for several thousand hours, so buy accordingly. You can probably re power yourself for $5k-$10k when the time comes. For example Mack Boring sells rebuilt Yanmars at very good prices.

Don't forget that space is very limited and the 616 is much larger than most of the engines it would be replacing.

It the turbo exhaust housing water cooled? Its hard to tell in the pic.
I wonder what type of drive they are using? It looks so clean/simple compared to my boat.
I would love to MB diesel power my 24' cuddy.

Volvo did water cooled turbos, and they last 200,000 + on a gasser.

Somewhere in the archives here there is a story about re-powering a boat with dual OM617s. Anyone want to try and find it?

I'm pretty sure I've heard of 616 marine engines as OE but it's a number of years since I've looked at the site that talked about them.

Been there done that now listen to Hatterasguy.
 

I did a lot of checking before re-powering my 1977 Hinckley Bermuda 40 sloop. I had my original 40 hp diesel re-powered with a 75 hp Yanmar diesel saildrive and now I have something I love. :)

If you are looking at 40 foot motor/sails, it means two things: a) you got the money to do it right; b) you will be going far, far away. You do not want surprises far, far away. :(

The bigger question is are you sure you want that hole in the water?:confused:

I'm looking at them for a living aboard now and increasing long cruising over the next several years. Good point about surprises while far away.

Hole in the water or hole in the land....every thing costs money. :)

Yea, and they are always corroded to all hell and virtually unrebuildable.

Isn't the Perkins 4-108 used in both automotive and marine applications just like the OM352?

http://www.dmv-bootsdiesel.de/Englisher%20Index/Lieferprogramm/MercedesBenz/mercedesbenz.html

http://www.keysyachts.com (I HATE music on webpages :mad: )

I've searched for half an hour and I can't find the boat with the two OM617's.

Probably, but you don't see those Perkins that often anymore either. They are all extremly old at this point.

Buy a boat with a servicable engine. Don't buy a fixer upper unless you know what you are doing. If not it will just cost you a lot of time, money, and frustration.

I wasn't intending to imply that repowering with a 616 is the best choice, only that there are some engines that work equally well in marine and automotive applications. I believe British Ford vans used the Perkins 4-108 for quite a few years. There is also a small French car that uses a Yanmar diesel but I don't know if it is one of their marine diesels.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a sailboat with a 616 or a 4-108 in it as long as the engine was in good condition or the price reflected the cost of replacing with the same engine.

Marine Mercedes
 

If I were to put a mercedes diesel in a sailboat in a saltwater enviroment I would choose a non turbo model, galvanize the oil pan, and cool it with a keel cooler. If you dont want to affect windward performance when sailing dont go with anything heavier than the origional engine ( heavier engine and you'll have to remove some ballast to get her to sit on her original lines and this will affect windward performance). Also take into account that it doestnt take much horsepower to push a 40' displacment hull. If you go too big it will be underworked and run too cool resulting in problems.

I just purchased a 83 240d with 140k for $200. The plan is to put the engine in a friends boat that we are going to turn into a sternwheeler. The engine will be keel cooled and drive a hydraulic pump for the sternwheel.

If you were talking about putting one in a trawler yacht weight wouldnt be a consideration. My 44' Trawler's engine and gear weighs 3800 lbs!, and generates 80hp @ 1600 rpm.

Too many cars, tucks, motorcycles, and boats to take the time to list.

I have to agree with Hatterasguy on this one. Repowering with a homebrewed setup would be difficult and expensive unless you are a machinist/welder/fabricator.

The only statement I take issue with is the "never seen a successfully marinized auto engine" Pretty much EVERY marine engine with the exception of large "ship" engines have landlubber counterparts. Yanmar, Universal, Nanni, Perkins, Westerbeke, etc. all sailboat auxilliaries, are converted tractor or industrial engines. Detroit, Cummins, Yanmar, etc. the large engines used in powerboats are all truck, tractor and industrial engines. Successful conversion depends on who did the conversion. It is pretty easy to source the correct marine parts to get it right. Taking a known land based diesel and converting it to a known marine type is simple parts swapping. Converting a land based diesel that has no marine cousin is likely to be a PITA.

If you were to put a 616 into a sailboat it would have to be a fairly decent sized boat. IIRC, 616's are 67hp or so? That is plenty for a 50+foot sailboat. I have a 32hp Universal in my 38 foot sailboat and thats quite enough.

RT

Sure the block is the same maybe the heads, everything else is different.

Volvo-Penta.
 

They used the B18 engine pretty successfully in small craft, no?

Jay.

It's already been done with the 616/617 by a Italian company if I remember correctly on a wide scale for quite some time. I can't recall the name of the company off the top of my head, but it was successful and reliable. Nothing wrong with putting a thru-hull in and using a heat exchanger instead of a radiator- just make sure the heat exchanger is large enough, and of course you'll need to power some water thru the heat exchanger by a pump- belt driven prefered. Use a "ricer" K&N type filter- as there is very little dust in a marine environment and that is the standard filter anyways for less than 1400HP marine diesel engines. Do some checking and we'll find the name of the company... it's not a common name, but give me a day or two and I'll find it.

Holes in the water.....
 

Folks,

Amoung other things, when I first retired I lived aboard an old Hunter at the Mobile Yacht Club, and the Bear Point Marina in Orange Beach, AL!!

A sailboat makes a far larger hole in your wallet than does a home on the land. Trust me.....I know from experience....

I lived the life of Riley for a few years, until my daughter got old enough to need the stateroom...and I slept on a 1/4 berth for a summer. I then purchased a house a coupla blocks from the marina.....was really hard to do both!!! The house did appreciate in value, big time!!! The sailboat depreciated in value...at a far slower rate than the house appreciated....but depreciation is a factor when living on a sailboat.

As far as re-engining a sailboat......there are a lot of factors involved.....a typical marine cooling system uses a belt driven "raw water" pump to circulate water thru a heat exchanger and then to the exhaust system, to overboard. The heat exchanger has coolant on the engine side.....circulating via the engine's cooling water pump....and an expansion tank located a bit higher than the "entire" cooling system.....

Personally, I would use a non-turbo engine.....if you chose to follow this route.

It may be a good idea if you intend to sail to Africa and/or the Middle East....there are lots of old Benzes in those areas for spare parts if necessary....perhaps a 616 engine from a 240D would be the best choice...67HP should be plenty....

Also, when designing your cooling system......try to run your hot coolant thru a water heater.....so that you can take a shower after a hard day of "motoring" thru the inland waterway.......

Been there....
SB

Nanni is the company name, I just did a google on "mercedes marine engines"... I found quite a bit. They no longer produce the 61X version, but they did.

On a semi-related note
 

How well does a gasser turbocharged engine work for boat duty? I'm not enough of a boater to really get a feel for the various choices, but I'm wondering because it's hard, say, to build much boost in 1st in most cars, but easy in 5th.

Reason why I ask- was out on the BIL's 18 ft I/O with Chevy Vortec V6 power. Saw that the motor was around 4500-5000 revs when running at a good clip.

Saw a '70s vintage speedboat, the kind which usually has a big V8 inboard, rumble by on the water. Know where a similar one could be had for very cheap.

Have an Audi 5 cylinder turbo motor, complete, sitting under my workbench. These motors can stomp any GM V6 short of a Buick GN on land. Got to thinking about how much power one could make with a cold-water liquid intercooler.

that 5 cylinder/K26 scream thru straight pipes would just be bizarre on the lake, eh?

VERY well. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgBc0o73CyM

Mercs new outboards are supercharged.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2063552875566283163&q=gar+wood&hl=en

There is an odd one for ya, you RX7 guys should recognize this...

Thanks! Just what my inner mad scientist needed!

(Going to the garage to start thinking out the cold-water intercooler now...)

here it is.
 

I have two Nanni engines, a 616 marinized with all the right stuff, heat exchangers, zinks, water cooled exhaust, transmission.
It is a very nice conversion.
San Francisco.

Henri.

Here are a bunch of water cooled exhaust manifolds for MB diesels:
http://www.bloklandnonferro.nl/uitlaatspruitstuk.html