Another Plugged Filter - Help!
 

Yesterday, on the way to work, Marlene plugged another primary filter (the one next to the lift pump). This time I was able to limp into work becasue the problem didn't manifest itsself until higher speeds (and fuel flow) so, I was thinking that it might actually have been clouded fuel because the temps recently have dropped into the 50° region.

This morning, I pulled the filter and upon examination, I discover there's a thimblefull of black guck in the filterbody...pretty much the same guck as last time!!

What is this stuff! I never had a problem with algae when running on diesel and this crap is thick enough that if it was in my WVO, I'd be seeing it collect on my WVO filter media in the storage and filtering apparatus I have in the garage.

I am plugging primary filters the last couple days myself and it has been warm outside. No alarming black gook or anything like that. I read a post by psfred (I think) that said bronze looking stuff indicates algae, I may be seeing that or just the color of the oil. Strangely in the past when I plugged the primary the secondary plugged soon after. That is not happening this time. I am near the bottom of the tank and may pull the screen when I empty the tank. I have never run any biocide type treatment in my car.

The screens I am using clean really well. I blast them with some carb cleaner or starting fluid and then some air. The car runs just fine. I am going to carry an aircan like used to dust a computer today, just in case.

I saw some black particles collect in my primary right after I started running WVO, not much. Haven't seen any in a while.

I have seen some fatty buildup in my fuel filler neck.

sounds like petroleum/algae crud. You may not have had any problems with algae before, but maybe they find your WVO particularly yummy, and invited the friends and relatives over to a feast in your tank :eek:

Try filling your tank to full and see what happens...does the power return again, if only for 100 miles or so?

That is what my car is doing. I'm pulling the filters and screen this weekend and see what I find. I just recently started WVO blends.

I had not changed any filters or anything yet. I wanted to run on WVO a little while to see if the magical cleaning properties would flush some crap out and into the filters. Then I can have a "clean start" so to speak.

Biobor time...
 

I agree.
The other possible issue, are you running B100?
When you change from Diesel to B100, the B100 acts as a cleaner, and breaks loose the dino diesel sludge in tank, screen and lines, the dino diesel sludge tends to clump.
I would Biobor shock the system and carry extra filters, just incase it is algae.

I have talked with several people who switched over, most of them started at home brew B20 and worked up to B100 over months.
Roughly 40% of them went through excess filter changes for a period of one month.

You could run low on fuel and pull the tank for cleaning, or just keep going until all the dino glop is gone.

Pre-filter gunk
 

This sounds like what I'm getting in the pre-filter in my '80 300TD; since May 1, 2004 I've been burning blends of WVO settled and filtered to 0.5 micron. Lately I've been running 90% WVO and 10% RUG. It's going fine, but I'm still getting the black stuff in the pre-filter. When this first started happening I thought it might be restricted flow due to the viscosity and responded by adding diesel #2 or RUG. The problem did not seem to be related to cool weather (Central California summer). Reducing the viscosity sometimes seemed to help but didn't really solve it. What has solved it every time is changing the filter. They're cheap and take 5 minutes to swap. I fill the new one with WVO and I'm back on the road.
It's pretty well-known that biodiesel causes this by dissolving or loosening deposits from inside tank surfaces. I've heard it said that WVO can do this too. I'm hoping it will diminish with time. I'm hoping it isn't dissolving any rubber hoses or other rubber parts. I want to remove and inspect some of these, such as the injector leak-off hoses and tank-to-fuel- line hoses. I recently added some Biobor in case "algae" is involved. I've had some success with cleaning out the used filters; I carry spares, and just ordered 10 from Fastlane. I checked the tank screen some time ago and found it clean; check archives ("tank screen") for my technique with tank full. I did replace the main filter early on as I didn't know its age. I bought the car last October, and the odometer was stuck until I fixed it a couple of months ago, thanks to advice on this forum. Search more, and listen to P.E. Haiges for the easier way to find out if the tank screen is blocked.

Its not algea, its fungus: Cladosporium resinae and Pseudomonas aeruginosa.

Only solution is to use a biocide like Biobor.

P E H

OK, OK...fungus (I knew that would get you off the sidelines PEH :D). But, I'm not all that convinced it is fungus. Afterall, I didn't have a 'fungus' issue in the over 20k miles of operation before I started running WVO.

For the record, I'm collecting chinese and cajun-grade cooking oil, allowing it to settle about 5-7 days and then cold filtering it through a 'danalinscot twill®' filter system, settling again for a few days before draining into a holding tank. It is dispensed to the vehicles through a Goldenrod. FWIW, there have been no similar issues with SWMBOs 300d but, so far, she's only run 1/2 the fuel I have since we started on WVO.

I have had some little black dots of gunk in my filter and changed it out. I found this due to feeling some hesitation at higher speeds again. After changing the Primary filter it made no difference, I still have the hesitation. Have a problem making it up the big hill on 360 and the one on 2222 going toward 620.....arghhhhhh.....don't think I'm gonna figure anything out till I do the valve adjust that probably hasn't ever been done....


I would accept the diagnosis that maybe your WVO is cleaning your tank.....getting long built up gunk from the tank finally breaking free.... but only because I've seen that listed a lot.....

KNOTMAN, are you filtering to 5 microns or 0.5 microns?

90/10 mix? Any mods to the car or are you running unheated blend in your main tank?

You better get that valve adjust done before I have to offer you $50 for that SD as a parts car! :eek:

ok...I'll be out there on Sunday afternoon...make sure the wrenches are ready......:)

Oh...and send me directions and I'll bring the coffee....

Seriously, I do want to do that soon, but I need the wrenches, the new gasket, and a complete oil change right after......gonna be an all day job for me....

Can't this Sunday. Retrieving another parts car... ;)

One half micron
 

My final off-vehicle filter is a bag I got from Greasel for $13.00, rated at 0.5, that is zero point five, micron, or one half micron. Before that comes settling for weeks and a trip through a Dana style fabric bag.
90/10 blend with RUG in fuel tank. No modification to car.

0.5? DAMN!!! I would think it would not flow at all.

My 5 micron bags flow ok for about 30-40 gallons. then start slowing down a lot. I've heard than 10 micron is sufficient so I figured my 5mic was plenty good.

what size bag? #1 7x16 ? how long to run 5 gallons through it? What size filter BEFORE the 0.5 micron bag?

I settle 1-2 days...25 micron...5 micron...mix 50/50 with diesel...into the fuel tank.

FWIW-The Bosch "Yellow Book" technical manual for their in-line IPs claims that the most damage to pumps is caused by particulates in the '5 to 7' micron region.

We get into the nominal vs absolute rating for filters. A filter rated for 5 micron nominal stops about half of the particles larger than 5 micron. I just ordered filter bags and decided to try 1 micron bags. I saw one post where someone said they use two bags at a time, one inside the other.

I biocided this past spring and had to replace a couple of filters, then I started using the B2 49 cetane fuel instead of my 50 cetane AMOCO and I have been seeing the black fleck's of stuff and replaced a two pre filters then one main spin on filter

Now for thefunny side, :D I forgot to keep an eye on the filters, and was getting ready to head out of town on an errand this morning. :rolleyes: I pulled out of the garage and was headed up the street when I realized I forgot by wallet and turned around headed back home. Durring the 2 mile ride back to the house the car started losing power and running poorly, and died as I pulled into the garage. I tried restarting car and it would just start then die. I got out and looked under the hood and saw my prefilter full of black crap, so having spare prefilters and one spin on filter on the shelf I did a quick change and car runs great now. :cool:

I can't believe I forgot to keep an eye on the filters as I knew the B2 was cleaning the tank and the rest of the fuel system for me. Guess it's because I only go through a tank of fuel every 5 weeks. :o

On the good side this afternoon a local tractor repair shop has cleaning facilities for injectors, pop tester and shims. The owner said he said he can adjust to with in 2 Bar/30 PSI and do all 4 for $75, if I only wanted them set to 7 Bar/100 PSI it would only be $50. I guess I'll be letting him do the injectors shortly to 2 Bar. :D

You need to add biocide to every tank of WVO, it's a smorgasbord for a variety of things that will grow matts of slop and clog the filters.

I would always add enough diesel fuel to discourage the growth of "algae" (a variety of fungus, algae, and bacteria), otherwise you will be changing filters constantly.

WVO will not disloge stuff from the tank, diesel fuel tanks are generally pretty clean. WVO will, however, encourage all sorts of growth in there, especially on the upper parts in contact with air!

Filtration will not help, the problem is stuff growing in the tank itself.

Peter

Randy, why not pull the Racor filter off of Nellibelle and put it in line ahead of the prefilter on this car? The Racor has a clear bowl so you can see what's in there + a petcock so you can drain it easily.

Well, after writing a novella of a thread my server kicked out and I lost it so try try again (although briefer).

First off the goo will not drain out a petcock but adhere itself nicely to the filter mesh.

I would have to agree with psfred unless you are perhaps running your blend with unwashed BioD mixed with WVO in which case There are alternate scenarios which I will touch on later.

WVO is not the solvent that Biodiesel (B100) is and shouldn't (I say with limited SVO experience) kick up the crud (and yes American petrodiesel is very dirty and will deposit lots of crud in your tank) the way BioD will. SVO however is a very appetizing food source to much be enjoyed by roving microbes. Fungal blooms can happen and are possible in petrodiesel as well as BioD, so give the buggers a food grade oil with no toxics to munch on and they will oblige. They can be hanging in your tank not doing much (sorta like a staff infection) and then you give them some nice fryer oil and they are all over it. Time for biocide, or at worst case scenario cut open your tank and shovel out the mushrooms (what are those Japanese mushrooms you put in a jar and let grow like an aby-normal brain). This is not as common in a two tank system as you are usually starting with a clean tank for SVO and so no microbes are present to to take advantage of the situation.

The other scenario if you are running BioD in your blend is in using unwashed or off-spec BioD. If I saw bronzish-brownish crud in my prefilter my first conclusion would be it was glycerin settling out of unwashed/offspec BioD (if you don't wash you need to settle a minimum of 3 weeks unless on the road and your expecting to deal with filter issues).

Another possiblity could be the residual reactants in unwashed BioD (Methanol and potassium/sodium hydroxide) mixing in your tank with the WVO (onboard biodiesel processing!) instigating a partial reaction in your tank causing glycerin to form and drop out into your filter.

Try the biocide first. If you are using BioD in your mix make sure it is washed. I always carry a box of prefilters and the appropriate wrench on board at all times. it just makes life easier, but I only have problems when I am using someone else's (commercial even at times!) BioD instead of my own homebrew, or I am on the road and not taking the time to wash.

Blooms? OMG! Good thing I'm not near Orlando! :D

The B100 I'm using is commercially produced, ASTM certified biodiesel. I have no idea how long it is washed, or anything specific other that it comes from a BD production facility near Houston.

If it is a fungus/algae, it seems like 5-10% RUG added to the WVO would make the mix pretty daggone uninhabitable to the little beggars.

I agree with Leo, at a little RUG to the tank and watch those buggers run & hide :D

Seems RUG kills just about anything it touches

Oh hell, are you sure about this? You mean I didn't need to spend $18 at the boat store yesterday? I got some biocide, it reminds me of cattle insecticide, measures the same way, maybe it will protect my car from worms and fleas too.

I might just do that....next time I get to see Nellybelle for more than 5 minutes.

R

I have no experience with either...yet.

After the filter change and screen cleaning tomorrow, I plan to cut the filters open and see what I can find.

I think I will NOT add any RUG or biocide after the filter change. But I WILL keep records of how much WVO & miles drive until the another clogged filter problem surfaces. Just to establish a true base line.

Next filter change, then I'll start with 5-10% RUG and see how long it lasts again. Longer? The same?

It's going to be a long term experiment, unless I keep clogging filters fast.

How much biocide did you get for $18? How many gallons does it treat? Could still be cheaper than RUG. But the RUG would help with thinning and lowering viscosity for the IP.




Either way I will probably start adding 5-10% RUG to my blend and see how long until the filters & screen clog again

Today at lunch, I took my collection of clogged filters and I went to see my pals at Austin Diesel Injection Service. After a brief deliberation, the jury is in and the mystery material is rubber...probably from my fuel lines. According to them, it is NOT algae/fungus et al...

They suggest changing out the fuel hoses with a biodiesel-compliant replacement tubing. Meanwhile, I'll be more scientific about just glugging in some B100 and hoping for the best when blending.

I got a quart and I think it said an ounce to 40 gal? or about 640 gallons/qt. I already add RUG at about 20%, I don't measure it, just eyeball it in 5 gal buckets. Started and ran fine this morning, thermometer said about 46°F.

My filters don't look anything like the pictures R Leo posted. It was really running with those filters? :eek:

Thats sounds like a great price for biocide! should last a long time.

I wonder about Leo's rubber problem. Is it the lye or methanol in bio-diesel that caused the fuel hoses to deteriorate and clog the filters? Or did the veggie oil cause the break down?

I hope veggie oil didn't cause that.

What kinda fuel lines are bio-diesel or veggie safe? I had assumed that if regular fuel lines are good enough for diesel or gas, nothing else is gonna hurt them. guess I'm wrong.

I wounder if the inline filter and screen caught all the rubber? If so your main filter is probably still fine.

Fuel containing higher conentrations of methylated esthers (ie +B20) cause that sort of rubber degradation.

Viton hose should be biodiesel safe. You can get it here (http://www.smallparts.com/) in small quantities. I'll be putting an order in soon. Anyone want to bulk buy?

It may also be available from your local auto parts hut since most engines built after about 1995 should be able to tolerate mixtures of methanol in their fuel.

More on Viton:
http://www.greaseworks.org/viton and there's this report on viton comaptibility.

diesel specials
 

Call Phil at partshop try changing the fuel filters, possibly change the strainer at the bottom of the fuel tank add lubrimoly diesel purge which cleans the system and also diesel high test all available at partsshop call phil 888 333-4642 check out the specials this month at the top of the forum page

Thanks for the pointers!
;)

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/McMaster-Carr has Vitron tubbing for about half the price listed at the site RLeo listed and they will sell it in 1 foot lengths if that's what you need. :D I use them all the time.

What about WVO? does WVO cause the stock fuel hoses to deteriorate? Or is it just a problem with the Biodiesel stuff?

Is it specifically the methanol in BD that is the cause of the problem?

That link isn't working, is there a typo? If I go biodiesel I need to get that stuff too.

Apparently it is the methanol that causes the problem. Additional anecdotal info from the guys at Austinbiofuels says that the deterioration only occurs when using biodiesel in concentrations greater than B20.

Associated info
here. This report focuses mainly on leaking seals in the IP and, is pretty generic in scope.

Let's try again. McMaster-Carr

Another source of fuel line that is safe with bio fuel is at your local hobby shop and is used for fuel lines on model airplane engines running nitro fuels. The problem is you will generally pay more for the fuel line from them.

Methanol explains a lot. My filter just didn't look like yours and I was getting the same problems. My main filter was clogging I think but I was not getting and rubber junk in the pre-filter.

Still a glogging problem but a different cause.

I think I was getting lots of silt and crap from the used motor oil that was getting past my 5 micron bag filters and the tank & in-line filters.

I may start trying 1 micron bag filters in my WVO process.

Do tell.....what did you pick up????

And my wife complains about my 3 cars truck and harley......I don't have one single parts car........... :(

Hmmm
 

The OEM hoses where made to handle dino diesel only.
WVO is biofuel and will eat rubber hoses...


http://www.mcmaster.com/

Viton hose is what you need...

SWMBO's ex did nothing but smoke pot, and boink other women.

My Mercedes addiciton is nothing in comparison to that crime...in addition, none of our vehicles have been filled with dino diesel since the stuff was $1.89/gallon, I've remodeled my house, built decks all over the place and landscaped the yard to "bank" the brownie points/attaboys that I readily swap for the ability to bring dead parts cars home and stockpile 150+ gallons of used restaurant oil in the garage. :D

Right on the Viton, wrong on the WVO. Nothing in there that can attack rubber...it's the biodiesel causing it. The same thing happened when people started using Gasohol in cars.

If you are using commercially produced biodiesel there should be no methanol in it whatsoever. The mehtanol and other residuals of the reaction are either recovered or washed out. The only way you would find residual mehtanol is if you were using unwashed homebrew. The methanol will dry out rubber and cause it to crack more often than melting it.

Biodiesel will melt, over time, natural rubber, but then again so will oil, any oil, whether Veggie or Petro. Oil and rubber don't mix so well, which is why they always caution you about spilling oil on your rubber belts.

The other issue at hand is the fact that Marlene is a 20 year old car. All be it a Mercedes. It is time to replace those old hoses regardless. I have been running well washed and well made homebrew (it's my full time take all my profit job) for several years now in my '83 and the only problems I have had besides the usual tank degunking period (which by the way required 4 prefilter changes and 1 main filter change over the course of a year) were the braided fuel lines going to the expansion tank behind the spare wheel. After calling my friend down at the Mercedes shop I was informed that Mercedes still use rubber fuel lines, so I replaced these with standard fuel line available from the local parts store. No problems. Hell if these last 10 years instead of 20, no big deal. The only other hoses I have replaced were the litte pieces going to and from the prefilter as I was always getting BD all over the hoses every time I had to change it out.

The biggest mess so far from the years of B100 use is the breather tube around the filler neck. These melt and turn to goo (and I mean goo!) in every biodesel I have seen so it is worth ordering two (by the way I order the prefilters by the box and keep them and a 4in1 under the seat).

How did they determine it was rubber? I can still get black grit in my prefilter even after all this time when I am foolish and start to run out of fuel (I need to fix the fuel guage!) but more often when I am on the road and have to mix in Petro diesel and do the same thing.

What you can do is replace the lines now with stock tubing and order the viton to have on hand when and if these deteriorate.

FWIW, the biodiesel I'm using is supposed to be comercially produced, ASTM B100.

I showed the filters to one of the injection hut guys (who did not know I was running any kind of alternate fuels), he looked at the guck and immediately said 'rubber'. I asked, "It's not algae?" To which he replied, "Algae is black too but this is rubber."

Now I'm not 100% certain these guys know everything there is to know about biofuels but, they do know their way around diesel engines.