How Does WVO Affect My 616 Engine? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Alastair · #31 03-24-2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pimpernell

http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:Y6HPzygg4v0J:www.journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/idahovegoilslitreview.pdf+wvo+as+diesel+fuel+damage&cd=21&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

None of the above testing involved Modifying the Injection event or fuel-system. The engines used for the most part were Direct-Injection and NOT Pre-Chamber engines--They are Very Different....

DI engines perform poorly on Veggy-Oil with regards longevity IME....

Constant-load/speed found in agriculture/generators is NOT recommended for using veggy --even when the fuel-system has been modified--

Constant load/speed even using std. diesel cause excessive carbon build-up anyway...--They coke-up.

Flawed testing IMHO I'm afraid.....

Next naysayer please.....

dieseldan44 · #32 03-24-2009, 08:44 AM

JEBalles,

If you dewater the WVO properly, and filter it properly, and run it in a well tuned reliable two tank system (Frybrid, Greasecar, or homemade to those standards) everything runs well, for a long time. I am just starting to run WVO on a Frybrid kit after making biodiesel for a year. I am going to do both now (bio stinks to make / run in the winter here)

A forum member here who lives the next town over from me has run the last 50k on his SD on WVO (from 250-300k). He has a two tank conversion and uses the Frybrid still-ish method to dewater (with his own mods of course). His engine runs as good as the day he started running WVO.

The internet and this forum is filled with stories of WVO ruining engines for good reason - it can and will - if done improperly. If you just dump it in the tank without filtering or dewatering in our environment (the northeast), things will be ruined fast. But, using good two tank systems and clean oil, folks with much more sensitive engines than the 616/617 are going 100k+ (later model VW's till 2006 and diesel pickups up until the mid part of this decade).

I have done hours and hours and hours of research on this very same questions, and have converged on my method of filtering/dewatering. I am using 'heated upflow' as Ron (WDBCDH) has described many times. tough to argue with someone who runs 1000-3000 gallon of WVO a year, for 30 years.

This forum has a lot of anti WVO sentiment for good reason. Lots of people get these old cars (that we all love) cheap, dump WVO in, and are happy to get 10k out of them, and leave them for junk. That makes everyone here sad...

Send me a PM, Im in Boxboro, if you want to come see my setup. I can show you how to check for water, and all that stuff.

dd

#33 03-24-2009, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alastair

His engine Prototype built at the M.A.N. works, ran on Coal-Dust....

Also, the air injection system (blast injection) used on very early engines was a remnant design used for injecting coal dust into the cylinder.

Those of you so fond of comparing Dr. Diesel's engine to Mercedes, watch this video and point out anything you find in common.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9r_RqQbMpQ

JEBalles · #34 03-24-2009, 03:37 PM

Alright, I see everybody's points. Now, this may just be a rational, but we are not going to have mineral diesel for much longer. If I'm lucky, it may last the rest of my lifetime, but by the end at least, probably much earlier, it will become very expensive, so I won't take the "just use mineral diesel, that's what is was designed for" argument. It seems to me that biofuels are just going to shorten the life of certain engine components. This maybe something I will just accept, but I will certainly take every action I can to minimize it. I may also try eventually to get into biodiesel production. On this topic though, does anyone know if it's possible to produce an engine to specifically run on biodiesel/WVO/SVO?

ah-kay · #35 03-24-2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEBalles

On this topic though, does anyone know if it's possible to produce an engine to specifically run on biodiesel/WVO/SVO?

There are owners in this forum that will not use WVO/SVO at any price. I am not sure whether they are the majority or minority, but majority rules may not be a good thing

The functional design of diesel engine is to run on diesel, SVO, WVO or bitumen. The key is viscosity. Bitumen is used in ship and it is solid and it has not ruined any ship's diesel engine.

Elsbett makes a special injector to spray WVO/SVO in a special pattern and may be it is the answer you are looking for.

spark3542 · #36 03-24-2009, 05:44 PM

I'll add my First-hand data points and nothing else:

1983 300SD 617 motor 281k on vehicle
Ran 8,000 miles on homebrew BD. Many fuel filter changes in first 2k miles, then none thereafter.
Then ran 31,000 miles on 90%WVO/10%RUG. No fuel-related issues. Still runs like a champ. No mods to the car.

1997 E300D (Black). 606 motor, 199k on vehicle.
Ran from first day of ownership on 90/10 WVO/RUG blend (at 162k), even through Mass. winters. Needed to change spin-on fuel filter often, sometimes as often as 400 miles. Put 34,000 or so on this configuration. Started getting hard starts, so as weather warmed in Feb or so, started blending homebrew BD in as well. Starts improved drastically. Time-between-fuel-filter-changes has improved to 2,000+. 37,000 total now on this configuration. No other issues. No mods to the car.

1997 E300D (Gold). 606 motor, 168k on vehicle.
Ran from first day of ownership on homebrew BD. only 2k miles so far, no filter changes, no issues. No mods to car.

Drive 495 to southern NH very often.

JEBalles · #37 03-24-2009, 06:58 PM

Now what are the opinions on B100? Biodiesel is going to be my summer project.

#38 03-24-2009, 07:43 PM

Biodiesel is great, buy as much as you can afford.

lietuviai · #39 03-24-2009, 10:14 PM

I've been running WVO in my 300D since last Sept. and I've put in over 4K miles on it. I decided to do a compression check using a Snap-On pressure gauge today. The readings were near perfect, from 410 to 420 not more than 10 psi variance between the cylinders.
What probably didn't surprise me were the deposits on the injectors and heat shields. The deposits weren't your usually black powdery soot but this hard glossy looking crap.
It looked a lot like the deposits in this photo.

Except the deposits were a bit more dramatic in appearance that looked like the spray pattern frozen in this hard black crap. It was really hard to clean off the injectors. I could only imagine what the pre-chambers and cylinder head looks like.
I was using WVO dewatered and filtered down to 1 micron. In my car I have a two tank system. I heated the WVO tank plus used an electric in-line heating element. I always started on diesel and shut down on diesel so as to make sure that I did not start on cold oil.
I'm seriously beginning to have second thoughts about running WVO any more.

billydar · #40 03-24-2009, 10:31 PM

been running an 80-20 blend of wvo to diesel for a few 2 years now, would use more diesel depending on the weather, a diesel purge every 3000 miles seems to really help prevent any coking.

#41 03-24-2009, 11:06 PM

If regular use of diesel purge makes a noticeable difference and it turns black when you use it, its a sign you're using bad fuel.

My 240 is a perfect example. Diesel purge was never used in my 6 years of ownership, the 1 year old primary filter had only a small amount of dirt debris (no sludge or gunk) in the bottom and the rebuilt injectors have 30k miles on them. A DP this weekend made no difference at all and it turned from clear to blueish/green when the leftover diesel in the system mixed with it, never black.

If you use the proper fuel and maintain your engine then sludge and coking should never be an issue.

I only get my fuel from Sapp Brothers, a high traffic truck stop that uses quality ULSD directly from the local Suncor refinery.

WD8CDH · #42 03-25-2009, 08:49 AM

A few more data points.

'80 Audi 4000D bought new. Converted to run on LARD before it was 1 year old. Ran it for at least 75K miles with only 2 waste grease filters. Retired due to an accident when someone else was driving it.

'83 ISUZU Pup bought new. Converted to LARD at about 5K miles. Drove it until frame rust made it unsafe to drive. Engine still ran like new when I sold it to someone that put it in a Trooper.

'86 Golf bought in late 80's. Converted to WVO 1 week later. Drove it until the body/ suspension was shot.

'83 Mercedes 240D bought used about 6 years ago. Converted to WVO and sold it about a year later. Current owner still running WVO.

'85 300 Turbo Diesel and '83 300 Turbo Diesel bought used 4-5 years ago and immediately converted. Both had Diesel Purge right after I got them, before conversion with a lot of black crud. Both given Diesel Purge late last year. Hardly any black crud. Both vehicles current daily drivers.

All running waste grease very well de-watered but without removing PHO or fat. In fact, when I started, I had to get my fuel with a shovel even in the hottest part of the summer.

At various times, I either ran most of the vehicles on B100 or ran B100 in the purge tanks, but eventually stopped making biodiesel because it was more time consuming than de-watering and filtering oil.

So far, I have NEVER had to replace a waste oil filter but I have had to replace quite a few diesel filters due to plugging.

ah-kay · #43 03-25-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WD8CDH

All running waste grease very well de-watered but without removing PHO or fat. In fact, when I started, I had to get my fuel with a shovel even in the hottest part of the summer.

It is nice to hear success story like this. This vindicates what I believe all along. WVO/SVO can be used as a fuel. Keep up the good work.