Well, at the risk of Mr. Lewallen feeling that he's getting ganged up on, I just have to jump in here and add to this discussion again. You see, I would say that he and I are just agreeing to disagree on this subject. And that's OK, I'm not an antifreeze salesman, I don't get paid by Mercedes, and I'm not interested in forcing anyone to use a product that they simply don't want to.
However, Bill, even though I have no reason to doubt your word, or disrespect you in any way, I would feel better about your decision to cling steadfastly to Prestone if I thought that you had done any research, or read the archived threads on this subject. But I have given up on convincing you personally, as I can see that no amount of information will ever change your mind.
Mercedes has used their own antifreeze for at least 15 years that I can document so far, and at least one old MB tech has told me that he remembers seeing "red" antifreeze in MB automobiles as far back as the 1970's. This antifreeze that Mercedes has being made for them, just happens to be the most advanced formulation of antifreeze in the world today.
If that wasn't true, then GM wouldn't have come up with the "Dexcool" formulation, and Chrysler, as well as Ford (soon to be) wouldn't be using antifreeze with Glysantin G 05 in it.
Just for reference, I decided to read the old "Coolant, RED vs GREEN" thread all over again, as well as the article I posted a link to in my past thread. While I was at it, I finally got around to call the publisher of the magazine that the article originally appeared in, and asked him several questions. Well, our conversation was shortened by the fact that he was under deadline to get the latest edition of his magazine, "Cool Profit$" finished. His magazine is circulated (sorry, intentional pun) to radiator shops nationwide, as well as businesses specializing in antifreeze, and air conditioning.
So the jist was this, He doesn't happen to own even one Mercedes, but he uses MB coolant in all of his cars. If the green stuff was good, he'd still use it, but it isn't and has caused problems in many more cars (and trucks) than just Mercedes. So, I asked him to log on here, post his comments, and answer members questions. He said that he would be happy to do so as soon as he was past his deadline for the latest edition of "Cool Profit$".
While I am talking about his magazine, I'd like to mention that he is currently working on an article about all of the problems that GM dealers and radiator shops are having with using "Dexcool" specification antifreeze. He mentioned the clog problem that Gary asked about, and also said that the silicates are "dropping out" and forming what appears to be sand in the cooling systems. These problems are so pronounced that GM has not only admitted to them, they have actually produced a video on what to do about them! These problems are not limited to any one brand of "Dexcool" antifreeze. It includes products made by Prestone, Havoline, and Zerex. I advise that no one use any of the "Dexcool" specification antifreezes in their Mercedes cooling system. Again, we should stay with the antifreeze specified for our cars.
By the manufacturer!
Now, as for Prestone, I went to their website and found out that they originally made straight ethylene glycol antifreeze in 1927 when the norm for antifreeze was methyl alcohol.
Well, EG is a corrosive, and even more of one at high temperature, so in 1930,
"Prestone developed and marketed the first inhibitor to further protect the cooling system and retard rust formation. ". Well that's no surprise...
But it wasn't until the early 1960's that American automobile manufacturers actually started using an EG antifreeze in new cars, and then, only with a 50/50 mixture. Whether it was Prestone or not they all used is unclear to me at this time.
Then, in 1972,
"the product was reformulated to incorporate the unique, patented silicone-silicate copolymer which greatly enhanced its inhibitor effectiveness, particularly for aluminum cooling system components." If it was so good in the first place, and already had an effective corrosion inhibitor in it, then why reformulate it?
Then they say,
"The year 1977 marked the introduction of Prestone® Super Flush formulated to remove rust and scale from radiators. ".
If this stuff is so good, why did they have to create a specific product to clear the rust and scale out of the cooling systems that it was being used in? Especially when the inhibitor they had added as far back as 1930 was supposed to "retard rust".
Then,
"In 1981, Prestone® antifreeze/coolant was again reformulated to provide even better corrosion protection for the increasing number of aluminum cooling system components used in cars. ". Whoa, slow down! I thought they already conquered the aluminum issue in 1972! What's going on here?
But we're not done folks, because,
"In 1994, Prestone introduced many new products in the antifreeze and car care categories including Prestone® LowTox™ antifreeze/coolant, Prestone® Extended Life 5/150 antifreeze/coolant and RV antifreeze. ".
If this stuff is so great, why have they
reformulated it every decade since the 1960's? and as for their claim,
"Prestone antifreeze/coolant became the Official antifreeze of NASCAR®." , they
specifically mean,
"Extended Life 5/150 antifreeze/coolant ... is licensed by NASCAR®", and guess what? THAT IS NOT THE GREEN STUFF!
WOW! These guys have hyperbole swirling faster than the antifreeze in the cooling systems that their products are still in. And while we're addressing that issue, I seriously doubt that
"80% of American motorist are using it in their cars." as Bill states.
First, Zerex is the #2 antifreeze manufacrturer in this country, closely followed by Peak and Havoline. Now if you take into consideration all of the other private label off brands, along with the specialty antifreeze targeted at the trucking industry (who have had the worst problems with "the green stuff"), and all of the other "designer" antifreeze used by the Japanese manufacturers, and Saturn, VW, Audi, BMW, Volvo, Saab, and Mercedes, how could all of that only account for 20% of market share in antifreeze sales?
If you don't belive me, then, Do your OWN homework!:
http://www.prestone.com
http://www.valvoline.com
http://www.havoline.com
http://www.peakantifreeze.com
http://oldworld.quietgiant.com/
[Edited by longston on 03-01-2001 at 10:57 PM]